Piracy - Reality vs Perception

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

total agreement...Better to be reactionary than dead...

Its quips like this , that in reality are politically minded that actually make no sense.

If one is debating facing serious armed pirates , then armed response from a typical yacht is useless. In fact its more then useless, it will lead to your death . Slogan-ising the problem is just that a slogan, rather likes" live free or die " etc. it ignores the fact that most people have little or no combat experience , few have access to firearms and the actual situations that arise don't lend themselves to single retaliatory attacks.

Leave Rambo for the movies, reality is an all together more difficult affair.

Dave

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Its quips like this , that in reality are politically minded that actually make no sense.

If one is debating facing serious armed pirates , then armed response from a typical yacht is useless. In fact its more then useless, it will lead to your death . Slogan-ising the problem is just that a slogan, rather likes" live free or die " etc. it ignores the fact that most people have little or no combat experience , few have access to firearms and the actual situations that arise don't lend themselves to single retaliatory attacks.

Leave Rambo for the movies, reality is an all together more difficult affair.

Dave

I am aware of reality,and "I pity the fool" that enters my "home alone" without a gun, because I (you may not be able to do this unless you too were a NC State wrestling champion that went all the way to state finals 6 years in a row and remained undefeated thru out you scolistic amaturer wrestling , Greco Roman and Freestyle grappling career)will tie them up into a small package and leave them for the powers that be to untie them..I know that 90 % of the folks out there cant or wont fight back and will be prayed upon by bad people, then there are those that will not stand for such a thing come hell or high water,I am one of those,you may be one of the other and that is your choice,but please dont assume that all are better off going along with the demands of someone that would do them harm,I feel like fighting is a better option than going along peaceably with crazy people,of course maybe you would fell different..Good luck ,your going to need it..

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Don L

I think you are mixing up petty thieves with .................... pirates!

lol.
i was referring to the petty thief's in the Caribbean. Not a hopped up Somali

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by scoobert

I took some time this week to consider this.
I came to the conclusion that our two medium size dogs should keep potential pirates at bay.
Not that they could stop them when the pirates have AK-47's, but a deterrent.
Why attack a yacht with two snarling dogs, when there is one over yonder with a, YIP YIP YIP on board.
Labs are great protection dogs.

Dogs are great alarms but not much of a true deterent...the ones that aren't quickly silenced by milkbones are easily dispatched with a handgun.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I guess that's why in your part of the world Vaginas are now controlled by da gubberment .

Which part of the world?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/world/...land-abortion/

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Dogs are great alarms but not much of a true deterent...the ones that aren't quickly silenced by milkbones are easily dispatched with a handgun.

i don't think outboard thief's have handguns.

and my dogs dont eat treats :P

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by scoobert

i don't think outboard thief's have handguns.

and my dogs dont eat treats :P

Like DonL wrote...you are confusing petty thieves with pirates...you even used the word pirate in your post...

and all dogs eat lead from bad people....

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I am aware of reality,and "I pity the fool" that enters my "home alone" without a gun, because I (you may not be able to do this unless you too were a NC State wrestling champion that went all the way to state finals 6 years in a row and remained undefeated thru out you scolistic amaturer wrestling , Greco Roman and Freestyle grappling career)will tie them up into a small package and leave them for the powers that be to untie them..I know that 90 % of the folks out there cant or wont fight back and will be prayed upon by bad people, then there are those that will not stand for such a thing come hell or high water,I am one of those,you may be one of the other and that is your choice,but please dont assume that all are better off going along with the demands of someone that would do them harm,I feel like fighting is a better option than going along peaceably with crazy people,of course maybe you would fell different..Good luck ,your going to need it..

Really I think you fundamentally do not understand the nature of such crimes and the responses to it. It's not about whether I chose to defend myself or not. That's not the issue in carrying a firearm ON A BOAT. At home I have access to firearms including automatic pistols.

Lets break down the type of attacks

(1) opportunistic petty thievery . This is the most common type and exists all over the world . The thief usually tries to act when noone is aboard and almost always does not want confrontation. Typically discovering your presence is sufficient to cause flight.

Summation ; armed response is unnecessary or in fact desirable and its use could subject you to severe sanction in many countries, as you where not specifically threatened.

(2) thievery involving the threat of violence ( or actual violence ). A more rare type , typically confined to certain areas In certain countries. In its aggravated form , the assailants are intent on causing injury , even death .

Summation ; armed response could be useful , However such actions must be 100% successful . Failure to disable the assailants could result in severe retaliation possibly involving family members. Issues surrounding suprise, preparation time, firearm suitability and mental state of defendant.

(3) Organised Crime , including piracy , large number of armed assailants , lawless culture etc.

Extremely rare and usually the result of putting yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time. Depending on motives of assailants , death or severe injury is a very likely outcome , especially of any attempt at retaliation is displayed.

Summation ; individual armed response is very unlikely to wield sufficient firepower to overcome assailants and the resulting retaliatory action wil almost certain cause death , typically of all present ( or extreme aggression )

Individual Small arms typically are useless on this scenario , unless significantly greater firepower can be deployed . Boat itself provides little or no protection and is a confining space , or a death trap


So if we can put aside the " ramboesque " stuff that typically comes from US gun advocates . The " I'd take my magnum xuz , loaded with abc round with mah custom grip" stuff, which is a focus on the kit and not the respons modalities.

I'm quite a good shot , I can disable or kill you with a .22. That's not the issue.

The issue is that very few situations on a boat benefit from armed response , especially armed response from a startled, groggy , surprised defendant fumbling to get his personal firearm out of its locker and load it. Not to mention lack of training to deal with such " pseudo combat " situations , ie no muscle memory etc. combined with the risk of loved ones getting injured or killed as the lead flies around

Sometimes , strong brave people surrender as the appropriate form of defence.

Just because I believe firearms are inappropriate on board doesn't make a wimp , no more then you carrying makes you Rambo.

Your own views and many other US style pro gun advocates seem to constantly picture assailants as bumbling gun carry miscreants , who will run at the first sight of your AR-16 with high capacity magazines and fancy optical sights , or that the miscreant is a kind of drug crazed idiot with no purpose other them to rape your wife and who should be gunned down like road kill.

This picture of crazed assailants may suit the politics of the NRA , but in reality, n the vast vast majority of cruising grounds its an extremely unusual and unlikely occurrence.

Do you carry spares for every event , no matter how rare , of course not , the boat would sink under the weight of parts. You take a view and bring common fault parts and accept that in certain circumstances you will have to rely on others .

Guns onboard are in the same category , unnecessary carriage, unreliable outcome , and unbearable consequences.

That's before we address any local legal issues.



Dave

[Jon Hacking]

The decision to carry weapons on board or not is very personal - somewhat like a religion. Whether you carry or not is your own business. Telling someone else what to do (when they haven't asked) is a little like telling them what god to pray to (which a lot of people still try to do).

But the good news is that it may become a bit of a moot point. Apparently the change in the Rules of Engagement (RoE) of the multinational force off Somalia has had the desired effect. If you check the Piracy Tracking Map for this year, you'll see that there have been only 9 events near Somalia in the first half of this year (by this time last year there were something like 100 events). Only 2 resulted in hijackings (both of fishing boats that were VERY close to the Somali coast) and both boats (& all crew) were rescued later that same day!

I'm not ready to sail up the Red Sea yet, but the Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, Madagascar, South Africa track certainly looks open again. Even the Seychelles look OK. Kudos to the many Naval forces responsible!

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

The decision to carry weapons on board or not is very personal - somewhat like a religion. Whether you carry or not is your own business. Telling someone else what to do (when they haven't asked) is a little like telling them what god to pray to (which a lot of people still try to do).

But the good news is that it may become a bit of a moot point. Apparently the change in the Rules of Engagement (RoE) of the multinational force off Somalia has had the desired effect. If you check the Piracy Tracking Map for this year, you'll see that there have been only 9 events near Somalia in the first half of this year (by this time last year there were something like 100 events). Only 2 resulted in hijackings (both of fishing boats that were VERY close to the Somali coast) and both boats (& all crew) were rescued later that same day!

I'm not ready to sail up the Red Sea yet, but the Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, Madagascar, South Africa track certainly looks open again. Even the Seychelles look OK. Kudos to the many Naval forces responsible!

I have a friend who went over with the Navy as a boarding party member right after the SEALs smoked those pirates who had taken the captain hostage. The pirates apparently figured out really quick that there was a new sheriff in town. Eventually, people will let their guard down again, and they will come back and start operating again. But, for now, the pirates have definitely curtailed operations.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

The decision to carry weapons on board or not is very personal - somewhat like a religion. Whether you carry or not is your own business. Telling someone else what to do (when they haven't asked) is a little like telling them what god to pray to (which a lot of people still try to do).

But the good news is that it may become a bit of a moot point. Apparently the change in the Rules of Engagement (RoE) of the multinational force off Somalia has had the desired effect. If you check the Piracy Tracking Map for this year, you'll see that there have been only 9 events near Somalia in the first half of this year (by this time last year there were something like 100 events). Only 2 resulted in hijackings (both of fishing boats that were VERY close to the Somali coast) and both boats (& all crew) were rescued later that same day!

I'm not ready to sail up the Red Sea yet, but the Sri Lanka, Maldives, Chagos, Madagascar, South Africa track certainly looks open again. Even the Seychelles look OK. Kudos to the many Naval forces responsible!

Sri Lanka,Madagascar.Seychelles thats where I want to go before its to late(I die!)

[Jon Hacking]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Seychelles - that's where I want to go before its too late (I die!)

They're certainly unique & worth a visit (IMHO). We crossed the Indian Ocean to Africa in 2007 & then came back to SE Asia in 2009. If you want to read about the islands, our coverage starts on our Indian Ocean Destinations page. Our Indian Ocean Newsletters offer a more "at the moment" view, & include the passage notes we sent out most nights. (OK, shameless self promotion...)

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Group9

I have a friend who went over with the Navy as a boarding party member right after the SEALs smoked those pirates who had taken the captain hostage. The pirates apparently figured out really quick that there was a new sheriff in town. Eventually, people will let their guard down again, and they will come back and start operating again. But, for now, the pirates have definitely curtailed operations.

Id have to counter and say that the RoE changes and EUNAVFOR attacks on land have made a huge difference, rather then what happened at sea.

Dave

[Group9]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Id have to counter and say that the RoE changes and EUNAVFOR attacks on land have made a huge difference, rather then what happened at sea.

Dave

Maybe, but, I think the ones getting shot at when they were trying to board vessels, had at least some imput into their change of heart.

Criminals, and that's really all pirates are, are not patriots, willing to give their life for a cause. They are just trying to make some easy money, and when it quits being easy, they quit doing it.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

They're certainly unique & worth a visit (IMHO). We crossed the Indian Ocean to Africa in 2007 & then came back to SE Asia in 2009. If you want to read about the islands, our coverage starts on our Indian Ocean Destinations page. Our Indian Ocean Newsletters offer a more "at the moment" view, & include the passage notes we sent out most nights. (OK, shameless self promotion...)

I really enjoyed your Indian Ocean newsletters and destinations page,you explained the Ham radio info very well,I will continue reading ,very informative..thanks