Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-06-2010, 17:21   #31
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Lets not turn this into a doctors vs folk healing debate. Being an MD, I am open minded to the need for healing in other ways. But we do need to tell people when something is dangerous. I have helped in the care of more than one person who got a remedy over the Internet or from a folk healer.
Hopefully what makes us different is that we (as physicians) try to give a remedy based on medical data. As in I prescribe prilosec because of its action on stomach cells. We try and understand the physiology of the body and treat its pathology. It should not be a political thing or a $$ thing. We try to stick to only the facts that are well established. That is why we don't Rx things we do not understand. And I am not arrogant enough to say we understand even most of it, but the part we do understand we work with.
Oxygen is something that we have some knowledge of. Too much of it is very toxic to humans (as mentioned earlier) I would not recommend enemas of hydrogen peroxide or ozone.
__________________

__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2010, 12:32   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 294
There are a lot of non-mainstream therapies that are quite effective. Sometimes it's a question of funding - Merck et al won't bother to research a plant if they're going to end up with an un-patentable product at the end. A number of herbal treatments, acupuncture, and plenty of others, are in this category.
There are also a lot of therapies that do nothing (except from the placebo effect, which still counts I suppose - problem gone is problem gone, no matter the mechanism). For example, homeopathy.
And a point that many people seem to miss (at least based on some of the stuff I've seen for sale) - "Natural" doesn't mean healthy. Foxglove is natural (and a source of powerful mainstream heart medicine) but if you pick a few stalks and eat them, they will kill you.
That said, if what you're doing is working, that is the most important criterion. Whether it's from an MD, or shaman, or mall kiosk. One doctor said they use 2 distinct labels for all the non-mainstream options: The ones that work are "Complementary". All the junk is "Alternative."
Hope your puppy does feel better!
__________________

__________________
Mariness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2010, 23:47   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 44Ft Sloop
Posts: 112
Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariness View Post
There are a lot of non-mainstream therapies that are quite effective. Sometimes it's a question of funding - Merck et al won't bother to research a plant if they're going to end up with an un-patentable product at the end. A number of herbal treatments, acupuncture, and plenty of others, are in this category.
There are also a lot of therapies that do nothing (except from the placebo effect, which still counts I suppose - problem gone is problem gone, no matter the mechanism). For example, homeopathy.
And a point that many people seem to miss (at least based on some of the stuff I've seen for sale) - "Natural" doesn't mean healthy. Foxglove is natural (and a source of powerful mainstream heart medicine) but if you pick a few stalks and eat them, they will kill you.
That said, if what you're doing is working, that is the most important criterion. Whether it's from an MD, or shaman, or mall kiosk. One doctor said they use 2 distinct labels for all the non-mainstream options: The ones that work are "Complementary". All the junk is "Alternative."
Hope your puppy does feel better!
I'm not much into 'alt' anything, but if what has happened with Honey is any indication, then maybe I need to review my stance.

The mutt is back to normal. Energy and strength has returned. All signs of abdominal swelling has gone. I'm hard-pressed to believe the effect of the treatment was placebo; unless of course dogs have suddenly begun to understand the nature of treatment.

I realise I'm reading like a pagan finding God, but the evidence before my eyes cannot simply be discounted as chance.

Here's something Ghoulish. When we had decided her time had come, we set about arranging the funeral....while she still teetered on the edge. Me, being a hopeless romantic, went out and bought a flash basket, a satin cushion, and a metre of red velvet. Her wee body to be wrapped in the velvet, placed upon the satin cushion and consigned to the great carbon cycle.....all to the humming of Amazing Grace.

After her rather miraculous recovery I put the basket, with satin cushion within, away in a cupboard.

Honey is a great one for finding little nooks in which to wedge herself. I came home expecting the usual welcome. No Honey. Panic. I searched high and low in all the suspected palces till I found her. Yup. Asleep on the cushion in the consignment basket.

Just thought you'd all like to know.:--))
__________________
dpex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 00:10   #34
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
For the moment let's assert you're going to turn up in Guinea Basseu. The locals carry leprosy, AIDS, jaundice, Yellow fever, Dengue, you name it.

You're not going to randomly "catch" a case of jaundice from someone and barring the minor detail that many people in the US have AIDS (and jaundice as well), you're going to catch AIDS pretty aware of what you're doing. And carrying some hydrogen peroxide isn't going to help much.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 00:40   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 44Ft Sloop
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
You're not going to randomly "catch" a case of jaundice from someone and barring the minor detail that many people in the US have AIDS (and jaundice as well), you're going to catch AIDS pretty aware of what you're doing. And carrying some hydrogen peroxide isn't going to help much.
It will, actually. A small bottle of the stuff, in my pocket, will be a constant reminder to not dip any part of me anywhere I shouldn't.:--))
__________________
dpex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 00:40   #36
Registered User
 
mangomuffins's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bradenton Beach, Florida
Boat: 27' Albin Vega - mangomuffins
Posts: 277
medicine v/s medicine

I must say that as a doctor of oriental herbal medicine, I have found this thread to be quite interesting. Some of you may remember participating in my poll about your opinions about using natural medicine for health while cruising. I can only say that the Dr.s are right...sort of. Natural (and esp. herbal remedies) have the potential to do as much harm as good when used improperly. In the hands of trained medicinal herbal physician, however, these remedies often work where western Rx does not and/or they do so, generally, without serious side effects.
Remember that many drugs are derived (or synthesized from chemistry models based on substances derived) from natural herbs, plants and even animals and insects. Here is a good example:

Lipitor (one of the most widely prescribed cholesterol drugs worldwide) is derived from Red Yeast Rice. Lipitor has side effects and some are serious but the most common side effect is muscle pain. If this is mild, it can generally be controlled by taking the supplement Co-enzyme Q-10. More serious cases can result in kidney and/or liver failure. All in all a pretty good drug with reasonable risks for many folks.

Some people, however, do not fair well with this drug and have found that the supplement itself (you can buy it in any health food store or walmart for that matter) controls their cholesterol as well as the drug. But guess what?

The supplement can have similar side effects as the drug derived from the natural substance (actually a rust that grows on rice) most notably muscle pain (also well controlled w/ Co-Q10). The supplement, however, is free from the most serious side effects associated with the drug.

Now having said all of this, I have to stress that this is just one example of similar functions between a drug and a supplement. Supplements are not strictly herbs but they are often a big part of many natural health practices.

Pure herbal medicine falls into two camps:
Western and Eastern or Asian
Western herbs are generally prescribed singly for specific symptoms (kind of like western Rx) while Eastern herbology [both Ayurvedic (Indian) and Chinese (the only stand alone "alternative" healthcare paradigm licensed as primary care physicians in the U.S.)] are generally prescribed in multi herb formulas and address symptoms as well as underlying causes and thus are quite safe and effective [can stop flu in it's tracks!!] when used as prescribed by a trained herbal physician. So be careful about trying "home" remedies such as the one in this thread. Sometimes they may be effective and safe...sometimes maybe not.

Many Veterinarians are using more natural and herbal remedies in their clinics so you guys may want to keep that in mind too.

The future of medicine will be integrated medicine. Many MD's are discovering the power of natural medicine when practiced by well trained natural physicians and are integrating these modalities into their practices in order to provide a more complete healthcare service to their patients.

Some people will always deride that which they do not or are not capable of understanding so I urge all to be respectful of health systems that have been around for centuries... they are still around because they work not because they don't.



cheers
__________________
mangomuffins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 01:15   #37
Senior Cruiser
 
Minggat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hawaii, South Pacific bound
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 1,220
The fact that this thread is over 2 weeks old and Honey seems to be doing well says something.

To be fair, please keep us posted on any ups or downs of her condition. And best wishes. We'd all like to hear that she continues to improve, but hearing otherwise would be important too. Even then, it might not be a result of the ozone, but in spite of it.

Looking forward to the best news.
__________________
Minggat
Minggat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 01:25   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 44Ft Sloop
Posts: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
The fact that this thread is over 2 weeks old and Honey seems to be doing well says something.

To be fair, please keep us posted on any ups or downs of her condition. And best wishes. We'd all like to hear that she continues to improve, but hearing otherwise would be important too. Even then, it might not be a result of the ozone, but in spite of it.

Looking forward to the best news.
Thank you for your kind interest. But if it's not a result of the ozone, what possible reason could one provide for such an amazing turn-around? I don't think she can improve anymore. She's back to her normal pain-in-the-arse self. Leaping up onto my bed in the wee hours, demanding entry betwixt the sheets. And If I choose to not give access I get the foul tongue in my ear. She's eating like a pig. Demanding walks. The list of 'normal' goes on.

Hell's teeth. Three weeks ago we were getting ready to consign her to the grave.....complete with red velvet covers, so parlous was her condition.

So if it wasn't the ozone, plus iron and Vit B, what the hell caused the turn-around? God? Luck? Doggie Lotto? You tell me.
__________________
dpex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 01:36   #39
Senior Cruiser
 
Minggat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hawaii, South Pacific bound
Boat: Islander 36
Posts: 1,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
Thank you for your kind interest. But if it's not a result of the ozone, what possible reason could one provide for such an amazing turn-around?
No skeptisim intended. I want to follow and understand any good news you have.
__________________
Minggat
Minggat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 05:36   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
I

Honey is a great one for finding little nooks in which to wedge herself. I came home expecting the usual welcome. No Honey. Panic. I searched high and low in all the suspected palces till I found her. Yup. Asleep on the cushion in the consignment basket.

Just thought you'd all like to know.:--))
Sounds like her sense of humor is fully recovered too!
__________________
Mariness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 08:31   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 523
I think that the BlueWaterMD (probably to his/her credit) is significantly understating the dangers of some of the herbal and alternative therapies. This is in part due to the interaction with mainstream western medicines. Also any suggestion that it is desirable to get medications without a prescription has a significant threefold danger; from conflicts with the medications, being counter-indicated due to other medical conditions and having to explain the possession of certain medications to customs and police officers in various countries.


I would respectfully suggest that the appropriate approach is to have a proper medical examination with baseline readings for bloods, BGL and BP recorded with a medical history and preferably the other medications documentation stating there appropriate use. Where these medications may possibly to dispensed to a person who has not taken them before there should be documentation carried indicating side effects etc.
__________________
2 Dogs
justwaiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 10:34   #42
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpex View Post
So if it wasn't the ozone, plus iron and Vit B, what the hell caused the turn-around? God? Luck? Doggie Lotto? You tell me.

FWIW, although not a Doctor or a Vet , I rather suspect your doggie is still terminally ill - even with the terminally ill symptoms come and go.

Did a shot Ozone up the jacksie alleviate some symptoms? (trapped wind?) ........or was it coincidence?......or was it me sacrificing a Goat?

I note you have put the Doggie Funeral kit in a cupboard, not on Ebay.........
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 12:00   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Wells, Vt
Boat: 42ft Colvin Gazelle - TLA HLA
Posts: 504
Hmm, the orriginaal post seemed to be about what to bring in a medical kit...at least to some degree. Glad to hear that Honey is doing well whether from medical advancements not yet understood or the placebo effect..or just plain being shocked back to reality by such an action!
In any case, There was a great book about caring for people without many resources called "Where There is no Doctor" (or something like that). Also might want to consider that in American healthcare there are also downsides. Legal practices that require unnescessary tests for example. Some that may lower recovery percentages or add risks. Greatly increased expense, etc.
Also, remember that many restricted drugs in the US are readily available in other countries so even if you are unable to find a doctor to get you what you want for your kit here (which seems unlikely in the land of money talks) it very well may be available where you are going.
Articles
here's one kit I was looking at the other day. Look down the list on the right under articles for medical kit.
__________________
ConradG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 13:09   #44
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradG View Post
... There was a great book about caring for people without many resources called "Where There is no Doctor" (or something like that)...
The Hesperian Foundation has the following English titles available for Free download:
A Community Guide to Environmental Health
Where There Is No Doctor
Where Women Have No Doctor
A Book for Midwives
A Health Handbook for Women with Disabilities
Disabled Village Children
HIV Health and Your Community
Helping Children Who Are Deaf
Helping Children Who Are Blind
A Worker's Guide to Health and Safety
Cholera Prevention Fact Sheet
Sanitation and Cleanliness for a Healthy Environment
Water for life
Pesticides are poison
Safe Handling of Health Care Waste
Women's Health Exchange
Global Health Watch 2005-2006
Global Health Watch 2
Where There Is No Dentist
The Story of Stuff with Annie Leonard

Goto ➥ Hesperian Foundation
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2010, 13:23   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Wells, Vt
Boat: 42ft Colvin Gazelle - TLA HLA
Posts: 504
Thanks again Gord...
Seems that you have a way with these electric boxes...
__________________

__________________
ConradG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
health

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One More Question About Personal Property Tax capcook Dollars & Cents 27 25-04-2012 13:26
Personal Responsibility Puddlefish Off Topic Forum 27 19-05-2010 07:52
Personal Log Book for Crew ? vivo el sueño Training, Licensing & Certification 13 14-05-2010 08:33
personal Web site jbthehut Off Topic Forum 13 11-12-2008 07:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.