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Old 05-02-2015, 12:48   #46
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
That's an individual thing. Each homeowner should be allowed to build his house whatever distance from the water he deems necessary to avoid being too close to boats that may be anchored on public waterways that abut his property. If he bought the house already built, and he finds anchored boats to be "disconcerting," he should have researched the laws governing where it was legal to anchor and assumed the worst case. The right to anchor there existed long before his ownership of the property. That right should not be infringed just because a current owner of nearby property doesn't like anchored boats.
Good point. I'm guessing the Florida anchoring regulations are going to consider waterfront homeowner opinions in their legislation. And this guy will likely get what he wants.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
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Old 05-02-2015, 13:04   #47
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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He is the bad guy for interfering with free access to the waterway storing unattended boats on public property. They should be towed and he should be fined.
Who said they are unattended. Did you do a study to document that he doesn't check on them periodically?

So if a crusier anchored out takes the dingy into shore...is that an unattended boat that should be towed away?

Be careful what you ask for.
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Old 05-02-2015, 13:06   #48
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Any restriction allows the owner of abutting land to control that much property that he does not own and I think that is wrong. Where I live, there is a 25' setback from the front/back of my property and 15' from my property line on either side. If that's considered adequate to protect mine and my neighbors interest in our respective property, then why isn't that same 15' or 25' good enough for waterfront homeowners? They don't own the property beyond the high tide mark so shouldn't control it either. It belongs to all of us and none of us and should stay that way. I do think that the same rules of civilized behavior and respect for others that apply on land should apply on the water, so boat owners anchored close to someones home (or another boat) should behave appropriately so as to blend in and not keep their neighbor awake at night or offend them with public nudity or loud/bad language and they should respect the landowners right to access his own property so should not block access to a dock or launching area by anchoring too close to either of those. We don't need any more rules than we already have.
The interesting thing is setbacks are essentially about your neighbors controlling your property. Then again if you support setbacks and other zoning laws, I'm sure you would support anchoring rules as they would essentially be the same thing.
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Old 05-02-2015, 15:09   #49
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Any restriction allows the owner of abutting land to control that much property that he does not own and I think that is wrong. Where I live, there is a 25' setback from the front/back of my property and 15' from my property line on either side. If that's considered adequate to protect mine and my neighbors interest in our respective property, then why isn't that same 15' or 25' good enough for waterfront homeowners? They don't own the property beyond the high tide mark so shouldn't control it either. It belongs to all of us and none of us and should stay that way. I do think that the same rules of civilized behavior and respect for others that apply on land should apply on the water, so boat owners anchored close to someones home (or another boat) should behave appropriately so as to blend in and not keep their neighbor awake at night or offend them with public nudity or loud/bad language and they should respect the landowners right to access his own property so should not block access to a dock or launching area by anchoring too close to either of those. We don't need any more rules than we already have.
Waterfront homeowners have riparian rights. I live on a waterway that is 150' wide, I'm allowed by Federal law to build structure (dock) out 37.5', local ordinance says 30' (variance possible to extend to 37.5'). And these structures are for private use only, ownership and usage is protected by law. Hence, you don't get to use that portion of the water if there is a structure, nor use the land immediately adjacent to the water.

Beachfront owners to the high tide mark has similar rights, I'm not sure what they are. I say this as I've seen structures built that start on the beach.

So, to counter your point, yes waterfront property owners do have rights to use the water adjacent to their property. More to your point, I do believe if there is no structure built on the water, the property owners have no rights to control who anchors where they 'could' build structure. Water is water, put a structure on it, rights change.
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Old 05-02-2015, 15:28   #50
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

"It seems to me that there is a middle ground somewhere where boats not in danger of sinking and capable of moving under their own power should be allowed to anchor for a set period of time, perhaps 30 days and a certain distance from a residence, perhaps 300 yards."

Don't have the hang of the quote tool here yet

But I heartily agree with this idea.
There is an economic theory called the Tragedy of the Commons.
Imagine a village which is located around a large square of grass. No one owns this pasture. Grazing your sheep on it is totally free. So, everyone starts to graze their sheep there. It is nearby and its free. Eventually, it gets overgrazed, and becomes barren and worthless.
When something is owned in common, the tendency is for no one to take care of it.
So, not only is this one homeowner "crazy" trying to keep the area full of boats on moorings, his neighbors are also crazy. Is there is patch of insanity in this part of Florida? I think not. There is or was something going on that we are not being told about.
Since everyone owns this bay, who takes care of it? Who picks up the cigarette butts, the empty beer cans, spend water bottles, the used condoms off the beach, which wash up from the cruisers? Who scoops up the dog and even human feces? The homeowner. I would guess not one single cruiser in this bay has ever done a "beach patrol." Of course it is not the majority of cruisers who make the problems.. it only has to be a small percentage. Remember, a lot of people in the boating community like to drink. And when people drink, they often do stupid things. As I said, calling the police really is not the solution.
Another example.. while staying at a nice marina a while back, my daughter liked to swim in the pool. I actually taught her to swim there. One afternoon there are a couple of guys having beers. Maybe a few too many.(yes the sign at the pool says no glass in the pool, but, these are cruisers. Rebels. Pirate flag on their sailboat. They don't give a sh*t.) One of them imagines he is a grandfather type, grabs my daughter, and throws her through the air. Not cool.
As you can see from my manner of writing, I am calm and rational and I refrained at that moment from terminating his earthly existence. That was my immediate impulse as a father.
Do you think the police will arrest him for that? Of course not. No cuts, marks or broken bones. They might come in a couple of hours and tell the guy not to do it anymore. Not a bad person, just not much sense when he has a few beers.
But now, whenever she sees someone with a beer in his hand, my daughter leaves the pool.
I could go on and on and on.
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Old 05-02-2015, 15:48   #51
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Waterfront homeowners have riparian rights. I live on a waterway that is 150' wide, I'm allowed by Federal law to build structure (dock) out 37.5', local ordinance says 30' (variance possible to extend to 37.5'). And these structures are for private use only, ownership and usage is protected by law. Hence, you don't get to use that portion of the water if there is a structure, nor use the land immediately adjacent to the water.

Beachfront owners to the high tide mark has similar rights, I'm not sure what they are. I say this as I've seen structures built that start on the beach.

So, to counter your point, yes waterfront property owners do have rights to use the water adjacent to their property. More to your point, I do believe if there is no structure built on the water, the property owners have no rights to control who anchors where they 'could' build structure. Water is water, put a structure on it, rights change.
Yes, but those rights are limited. There's a maximum size for that dock. And fishing boats can come right up to the shore around it and right up to it.

The waterfront homeowner has rights to build a dock, but not exclusive rights to use the adjacent water.

You have to watch the laws very carefully, because wealthy landowners are always looking to expand their rights, and take them away from everyone else.
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Old 05-02-2015, 15:59   #52
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces View Post
Yes, but those rights are limited. There's a maximum size for that dock. And fishing boats can come right up to the shore around it and right up to it.

The waterfront homeowner has rights to build a dock, but not exclusive rights to use the adjacent water.

You have to watch the laws very carefully, because wealthy landowners are always looking to expand their rights, and take them away from everyone else.
Agree. I was simply responding to the post that stated waterfront property owners have zero rights to the water.

FWIW, fishing boats cannot block access to/from a private dock. Same as they can't anchor in a marked channel.

Agree on some trying to expand their rights (or most correctly don't know/accept the limits of their rights).
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Old 05-02-2015, 16:12   #53
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by dohenyboy View Post

So, not only is this one homeowner "crazy" trying to keep the area full of boats on moorings, his neighbors are also crazy. Is there is patch of insanity in this part of Florida? I think not. There is or was something going on that we are not being told about.
Since everyone owns this bay, who takes care of it? Who picks up the cigarette butts, the empty beer cans, spend water bottles, the used condoms off the beach, which wash up from the cruisers? Who scoops up the dog and even human feces? The homeowner. I would guess not one single cruiser in this bay has ever done a "beach patrol."
Whoa, that's quite the vivid imagination you have, there... Damn those cruisers, they sure fit the demographic that leaves a mess of used condoms in their wake, alright... ;-)

In any event, it appears you've never anchored in Sunset Lake...

(plenty of telephoto compression in this shot, I was nowhere near as close to this home as it appears... the owner didn't seem to object to my presence, I had a nice chat with him from my dinghy one morning, after I made a point of complimenting him on the beauty of his property, and showing my appreciation for having the anchorage as a safe refuge from some very severe weather that had passed thru the day before)




In my observation, it doesn't serve as a place where much "partying" takes place, particularly with the very popular gathering place of Monument Island so close at hand... In addition, there is a Miami Beach Marine Police station adjacent to one of the canals leading into Sunset Lake, if there were complaints from the residents, the police could be there in very short order...

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I could go on and on and on.
I have little doubt about that...

;-))
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Old 05-02-2015, 16:12   #54
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by dohenyboy View Post
There is an economic theory called the Tragedy of the Commons.
Imagine a village which is located around a large square of grass. No one owns this pasture. Grazing your sheep on it is totally free. So, everyone starts to graze their sheep there. It is nearby and its free. Eventually, it gets overgrazed, and becomes barren and worthless.
When something is owned in common, the tendency is for no one to take care of it.
So, not only is this one homeowner "crazy" trying to keep the area full of boats on moorings, his neighbors are also crazy. Is there is patch of insanity in this part of Florida? I think not. There is or was something going on that we are not being told about.
You made a couple of good points, but a guy putting a bunch of boats in front of his property to keep other people from anchoring near his house isn't an example of the "tragedy of the commons". It's an example of someone being a jerk.

Your other story about someone tossing your daughter in the air has nothing at all to do with this, as far as I can tell.

The 'tragedy of the commons' is an appropriate reference for taking care of our water resources, but has nothing to do with setting up an artificial space around people's waterfront property because they think they should own their horizon.
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Old 05-02-2015, 17:14   #55
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

The lake is kept clean by twice a day tides and currents. There are no beaches, all seawall, and all the waterfront has private houses built on it. 150 foot setback would eliminate any anchoring here. I notice there doesn't seem to be any homeowner complaints about their own boats tied up to their docks.
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Old 05-02-2015, 18:22   #56
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Waterfront homeowners have riparian rights. I live on a waterway that is 150' wide, I'm allowed by Federal law to build structure (dock) out 37.5', local ordinance says 30' (variance possible to extend to 37.5'). And these structures are for private use only, ownership and usage is protected by law. Hence, you don't get to use that portion of the water if there is a structure, nor use the land immediately adjacent to the water.

Beachfront owners to the high tide mark has similar rights, I'm not sure what they are. I say this as I've seen structures built that start on the beach.

So, to counter your point, yes waterfront property owners do have rights to use the water adjacent to their property. More to your point, I do believe if there is no structure built on the water, the property owners have no rights to control who anchors where they 'could' build structure. Water is water, put a structure on it, rights change.
Actually, I believe I specifically mentioned that if the waterfront owner has a dock or launching area in front of his property, boaters should respect that and stay far enough clear of it so as to not impede his access, so we don't disagree after all.
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Old 05-02-2015, 18:27   #57
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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The interesting thing is setbacks are essentially about your neighbors controlling your property. Then again if you support setbacks and other zoning laws, I'm sure you would support anchoring rules as they would essentially be the same thing.
In an ideal world, I'd support none of the above! My only point was that others were talking about 300 yards or 50 yards setbacks being reasonable, both of which seem ridiculous to me, so IF we are going to even discuss setbacks on the water, they should be more in line with those on land, 15' or 25' are enough. But 0 is even better!
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Old 05-02-2015, 18:52   #58
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Re: Owner puts boats to block anchorage in Miami

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Originally Posted by Waterway Guide View Post
It's people like him who are behind pushing through new Florida legislation to allow municipalities to prohibit anchoring near residential property. This morning I posted the survey result links that will probably be the guidelines for the new laws in the survey post in the "regulations, ...red tape" forum. The survey results was released by FWC yesterday Anchoring Survey Results (or if you care to also suffer my commentary, the links are here, too: Florida anchoring survey results are now available | General | Waterwayguide.com News Updates)
This guy is doing this so the neighbors and others will vote anti-anchoring laws.
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