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Old 24-06-2015, 12:56   #16
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
My apologies. No offense intended, but discussion of that possibility will obviously come up.
Thanks, Belizesailor -
Please read this link:
http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2015/06/carly-hill-lost-overboard/

Hopefully it shall clarify...........
We also have experienced that panic moment. Once my wife thought I had gone overboard and another was when I thought she had. Obviously, both were very short lived moments, but the immediate feeling cannot be described. Sheer horror. We always wear our harnesses at night but if the weather is good during the day we are rarely found wearing them. We have now decided that if one person only is on watch, regardless of the conditions then the harness MUST be worn (with the always attached VHF and pencil flares). Im sure we'll still cheat from time to time but every effort reduces the likelyhood of the same happening.
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Old 24-06-2015, 13:06   #17
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by indiana_ct View Post
I wonder what happened - just tripped and slipped? No tether? no lifejacket?
Very sad indeed, but it wouldn't seem very difficult to fall off that thing...





Pretty shallow cockpit, completely devoid of lifelines or a stern rail, where simply standing up places one uncomfortably close to the 'transom'...


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Old 24-06-2015, 13:38   #18
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Very sad indeed, but it wouldn't seem very difficult to fall off that thing...





Pretty shallow cockpit, completely devoid of lifelines or a stern rail, where simply standing up places one uncomfortably close to the 'transom'...


My immediate thoughts as well. The design of that thing is just asking for someone to go over board. I find it difficult to comprehend that someone with so much experience would construct a vessel with so few provisions for preventing a MOB. Of course, not knowing the details of their procedures for being alone on deck and in foul weather, I cannot say that the vessel's design was a factor but one can't help but notice and wonder. Not at all to diminish the horror of what happened, but I think it is important to discuss to role of vessel design in the safety of those aboard after such an accident.
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Old 24-06-2015, 14:52   #19
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

So very tragic. Even a harness and tether is no guarantee of safety, although it's the correct procedure. About 25 yrs before I reported to my sub, the CO and XO were both in the bridge, tethered and in a Steel enclosure up to their armpits. They were in the Potato Patch and got hit by a rogue wave which broke the CO's tether and knocked the XO out of the bridge, 25. Ft above the surface. He was retrieved, but so badly injured that he was restricted to his stateroom and Command passed to the Navigator. The CO was never recovered. Because of that incident, the Navy instituted a policy that the CO and XO are never to be on the bridge together, or report to the scene of a casualty together.

I imagine there have been instances of 2 person crews getting swept off together in extreme weather.
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Old 24-06-2015, 15:22   #20
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
So very tragic. Even a harness and tether is no guarantee of safety, although it's the correct procedure. About 25 yrs before I reported to my sub, the CO and XO were both in the bridge, tethered and in a Steel enclosure up to their armpits. They were in the Potato Patch and got hit by a rogue wave which broke the CO's tether and knocked the XO out of the bridge, 25. Ft above the surface. He was retrieved, but so badly injured that he was restricted to his stateroom and Command passed to the Navigator. The CO was never recovered. Because of that incident, the Navy instituted a policy that the CO and XO are never to be on the bridge together, or report to the scene of a casualty together.

I imagine there have been instances of 2 person crews getting swept off together in extreme weather.
Wow! To sweep a CO off his bridge by a rogue wave! Please post a photo of that sub or sister, so we can see the conning tower.

And, this was in the Potato Patch outside of San Francisco, or elsewhere?
Thanks.
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Old 24-06-2015, 15:24   #21
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Very sad indeed, but it wouldn't seem very difficult to fall off that thing...





Pretty shallow cockpit, completely devoid of lifelines or a stern rail, where simply standing up places one uncomfortably close to the 'transom'...



Good observations.
A little lurch or sudden roll in the boat would be all it would take for someone to get tossed over the side of that boat, if they were not tethered.
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Old 24-06-2015, 15:39   #22
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Wow! To sweep a CO off his bridge by a rogue wave! Please post a photo of that sub or sister, so we can see the conning tower.

And, this was in the Potato Patch outside of San Francisco, or elsewhere?
Thanks.
Ive been on subs circa 3.4k tons, and they do get very wet in big seas as with their B/L Ratio they tend to cut through seas as opposed to floating over, breaking waves add to that.

It isnt as uncommon as all that to flood the cockpit in the sail, and theres plenty to knock yourself about on with the steering compass, pelorus and cockpit combing.
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Old 24-06-2015, 15:54   #23
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by ZULU40 View Post
Ive been on subs circa 3.4k tons, and they do get very wet in big seas as with their B/L Ratio they tend to cut through seas as opposed to floating over, breaking waves add to that.

It isnt as uncommon as all that to flood the cockpit in the sail, and theres plenty to knock yourself about on with the steering compass, pelorus and cockpit combing.
Interesting. Thanks for adding that.
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Old 24-06-2015, 16:20   #24
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post

Good observations.
A little lurch or sudden roll in the boat would be all it would take for someone to get tossed over the side of that boat, if they were not tethered.
According to the report linked to above from MOLLYMAWK, winds were only Force 3 at the time, a perfect recipe for letting one's guard down. Quite likely she might not have been tethered in such conditions, and perhaps might have even been tempted to go on deck to attend to something without bothering to wake her husband...

This pic better shows how vulnerable one could be in that cockpit, pretty stunning to think that puny 'board' below that guy's knee represents the back of the boat... Additionally, not to say there may not be any provision for doing so, but in that photo at least, there is no evidence of any attachment points/folding padeyes for tethers, or a cockpit jackline, or similar...





Last delivery I did was a Beneteau Oceanis from Annapolis down to Lauderdale... Nice little boat, easy trip, though I did have pretty sporty conditions down the Chesapeake, and across Albemarle Sound...

The boat featured the wide, open transom so popular these days, enclosed only by a lifeline spanning the distance between the small pushpit rails at each quarter...

VERY spooky being at the helm offshore with such an arrangement... First time I've bothered to clip on in a cockpit in a LONG time...
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Old 24-06-2015, 16:41   #25
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

Conditions were Force 3?

Just goes to show that even in relatively benign sailing conditions, if one goes overboard, you are lost (unless lucky) if no one is on deck and and no one knows it happened or if they have no way to easily find you (see below). A boat does not have to move very fast to be out of reach to the MOB.

Obviously this is the kind of situation where the "tether" to keep one onboard, or a PFD (preferably with AIS and/or PLB or other signaling device) would have made a big or vital difference.
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Old 24-06-2015, 16:54   #26
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Wow! To sweep a CO off his bridge by a rogue wave! Please post a photo of that sub or sister, so we can see the conning tower.

And, this was in the Potato Patch outside of San Francisco, or elsewhere?
Thanks.
The story I related was part of the "tribal knowledge" imparted to me when I checked onto the boat. Yes, I was told it was the Potato Patch just outside of SF.

Here's an entry from Wikipedia:

Quote:
Commander A. L. Wilderman, commanding officer, was washed overboard from the bridge in a storm near San Francisco on December 2,1973. The officer of the deck and lookout were not lost.
I checked on in Jan 1986, so I guess this happened only 13 yrs prior, not the 25 yrs I was led to believe.

Here is a pic of USS Plunger (SSN595) on the surface in calm seas, doing what looks like about 1/3 bell. The officer in the pic is sitting atop the coaming, he should have been in the cockpit area, which would place him armpit deep inside the sail, with a plexiglass windshield extending up about 24" higher.

I'm guessing it's at least 25' between water level to the top of the sail. It must have been a pretty bad storm to smack them that hard, up that high, that his tether broke. The story was the XO was still attached, but was repeatedly bounced off the side and suffered a lot of injuries before they could haul him back in, there was no way he could pull himself in. Something to think about when using lanyards or tethers - they should be short enough to prevent you from going over the side and getting dragged in the water.

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Old 24-06-2015, 16:54   #27
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

Mentioned briefly above is the handheld VHF. I think that's a wonderful idea. We have a pair and intend to keep them on the vests. Hell, I may get a third as a spare.

The idea of such an incident scares me badly.
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Old 24-06-2015, 16:59   #28
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Mentioned briefly above is the handheld VHF. I think that's a wonderful idea. We have a pair and intend to keep them on the vests. Hell, I may get a third as a spare.

The idea of such an incident scares me badly.
That sounds like an excellent idea!
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Old 24-06-2015, 17:24   #29
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
Thanks, Belizesailor -
Please read this link:
http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2015/06/carly-hill-lost-overboard/

Hopefully it shall clarify...........
We also have experienced that panic moment. Once my wife thought I had gone overboard and another was when I thought she had. Obviously, both were very short lived moments, but the immediate feeling cannot be described. Sheer horror. We always wear our harnesses at night but if the weather is good during the day we are rarely found wearing them. We have now decided that if one person only is on watch, regardless of the conditions then the harness MUST be worn (with the always attached VHF and pencil flares). Im sure we'll still cheat from time to time but every effort reduces the likelyhood of the same happening.
Yes, that would be a heart stopping moment.

I went forward once at night with a non-sailing guest sleeping below. Pretty sporty conditions, but I was very conservative and clipped in tight. She of course woke up just after I went forward. I could hear her forlornly calling my name from the cockpit...can only imaging what was going thru her head...and she was just a friend not a spouse.

I've lost a spouse in a boating accident. She was solo and we spent the whole night looking for her...longest night of my life...so I do know how he must have felt.
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Old 24-06-2015, 17:45   #30
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Re: Overboard: wife missing from Oryx

TO Socaldmax:

Thanks for the info and photo.

That is the kind of sub I was expecting to see. It is really hard to imagine how a wave could wash him out of the sail/con, but that just goes to show that the sea is capable of doing some unexpected BAD stuff to a sailor.

What a way to go, and right before entering SF.

I am also interested, as the account says "during a storm" and they were on the surface, and that area is notorious for breaking waves of much higher than normal (Potato Patch gets some HIGH breaking waves).

I suppose it must be SOP to be surfaced when entering port even in a storm.
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The Potato Patch has always interested me (I used to sail in SF and out the gate too).

Here is a quote I found from an experienced (older) surfer who rides big waves out there:

"Since the Great Bar is unbuffered by any other landmass, it receives an incredible amount of energy from open sea swells, especially in winter. Then, waves that Renneker projects can reach up to 80 to 100 feet in height roar in from the north and crash with atomic force on its shallow shoal. " ---Mark "Doc" Renneker
SOURCE: WILD SURF / The Wave Hunter / After searching 25 years for the perfect ride off the Great Bar, Doc Renneker finally makes a run for it -- and another surfing myth is born - SFGate

I will post a photo showing a lower breaking wave there in the Patch off Point Bonita. It is hard to judge scale (height) when photos are taken from far away, but this should give an idea of how the break can look.
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