Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-04-2014, 14:45   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
Outleader Kites

I have become interested in using a kite to drive a vessel on a downwind run and found that “Outleader Kites” were big news in 2004. Since 2006, they seem to have disappeared and the various websites that claim to sell them, do not respond to e-mails, plus their phone contacts got me into the voicemail for a “nanny service”!? Does anyone know what happened to the company and / or is there someone else selling kite spinnakers that would be suitable for a catamaran?
Ed
__________________

__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 14:53   #2
Registered User
 
SV Windrush II's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere in the Philippines
Boat: Mariner 40 Ketch
Posts: 452
Images: 18
Re: Outleader Kites

I am also interested in this for cruising with our 48' motoryacht. Interesting to see if we can share some info
__________________

__________________
Mariner 40 Ketch
SV Windrush II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 16:00   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Outleader Kites

I brought this up in another thread. Businesses can go down, but I want to know why there was a sudden loss of interest in kites. Is there a danger that needs to be addressed?
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 16:15   #4
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Outleader Kites

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
I brought this up in another thread. Businesses can go down, but I want to know why there was a sudden loss of interest in kites. Is there a danger that needs to be addressed?
Kites where the 'next big thing' awhile back when the windsurfers switched to using kites, awesome for getting huge air!
They must be actively flown to be really effective, which isn't viable for a cruising boat. The promise of automated flying didn't pan out apparently.
For downwind though, don't think active flying is needed, you are just creating a drag device not using airfoils.
That said I have no direct experience yet, so my $0.02.
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 16:23   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
Re: Outleader Kites

Hi Newt,
My guess – and this is just a guess - is that the performance advantages of the kite over a conventional spinnaker, if any, were not sufficient to generate a viable market for the product. A really big kite would be hard to handle and a modest sized kite wouldn’t attract the racing crowd. However, what has changed in the past decade is the emergence of long range power catamarans.

I am doing a feasibility study on making a Pacific crossing with a 47 foot motor cat. (BTW, my wife and I have circumnavigated with a 53 foot ketch 2003-2009 so we are not entirely “armchair sailors”). The range of the Fountaine-Pajot and Leopard / Moorings boats is about 1,000 NM and these vessels have crossed the Atlantic making 2,000 NM mile jumps between fuel stops by carrying extra fuel and running on a single engine at half throttle. If a kite were used, for even part of the down-wind leg, the safety margin increases dramatically, particularly in a South Pacific route where the jumps might be Panama-Galapagos-Easter Island-Pitcairn (?). You don’t need a high performance kite, just something that might get you 4 knots boat speed in a trade-wind within 30 or 40 degrees of your desired course. The cost of the kite is probably peanuts versus the cost of freighting a boat.
Ed
__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 17:39   #6
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,940
Re: Outleader Kites

I know nothing about these, but have followed them with some interest. Aparently there are some real limitations that kites impose that are very different than with sails.

See Peter Lynn Himself - Kites_For_Yachts Â*Â* for an informed discussion.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 18:04   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
Re: Outleader Kites

Thank You for the feedback – I am surprised at the level of interest in this. I read the Peter Lynn article you referenced and noted that he speaks of the advantages of “low performance” kites and in fact his article was where I first saw the reference to the Outleader style. This led me to the 2004 article by Alan H. at
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=9606 where they tested an Outleader Kite at sea with several runs. It seems to me that a catamaran solves the problem of getting separation of the control lines and perhaps retrieval would be easier on a power cat with no mast forestay in the way. With a motor cat and no fuel, you are truly SOL, whereas when a sailboat runs out of wind, you just bob around until it blows again. Even a “limited” back up power source for a motor cat would be nice to have.
Ed
__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 19:53   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg Queensland/Lake Bolac Victoria, Australia
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,199
Re: Outleader Kites

Email received when I made enquires about the same.....

Quote:
Could you please tell me if you are still producing sailing kites for
recreational sailboats.

Best Regards
xxxxxxxxxxx


Quote:
I'm sorry to say, but no, we are not. A great idea and widely regarded, but not a viable business, unfortunately.

Thank you for your interest,


Dave Culp


Dave & Shelley Culp
College Nannies+Tutors
925 550 6738 CollegeNannies.com/danvilleca
Follow us on Facebook!
KiteShip was the company which was responsible for the OutLeader and Dave Culp was one of the partners in the now defunct venture..

KiteShip - Pleasure Marine

...but if you want a Nannie he is the man to see....

Or you can try talking to these guys down here in Oz if your still keen...

SAILCHUTES HOME
__________________
IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 21:10   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
Re: Outleader Kites

Thank You IslandHopper! That explains the voice message I heard about "nannies"! I will keep after this and appreciate your feedback and suggestions. I think I needed a nanny when I was in college.
Ed
__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-2014, 21:39   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New Zealand
Boat: S&S Hughes 40
Posts: 16
Re: Outleader Kites

If it's just down wind cruising you're after look into a round parachute. A google search will find info on that, complete with video. You can get one for around $US250 and I've personally seen a 43 foot mono hull pulled along at over seven knots in about twenty knots of wind.
easy to launch but a little hard to recover in strong winds but there are ways to do it. Dunking in the water even as a last resort.
__________________
EBCAU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:15   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
pirate Re: Outleader Kites

OK, I checked out the “Sailchutes”website, sent them an e-mail (no reply yet) and watched the video. The parachute product shown, only works with a mast to hold the parachute clear of the water. I don’t think a simple parachute is going to work on a power cat that has no mast. I am back to kites again that provide “lift” for the canopy as well as “pull”.

I looked at parasailing parachutes which use a kind of hybrid with “slots” in the canopy to provide the lift but these require a minimum weight (human body) as a keel in order to orient the parachute. The kiteboarding kite / parachutes look closest to what is needed. The kite does not need to be “steered” and so the control could be greatly simplified but I don’t think that a stock “kite” would be big enough to pull a 12 / 15 ton boat. Maybe I’m wrong.

Still looking.
Ed
__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 09:24   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Outleader Kites

Sounds intriguing and the price is nice. How do you keep it aloft? Which lines/attachments do you use? What size do you use for your 40 footer?
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2014, 10:13   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 242
Re: Outleader Kites

sean langman was planning to use a kite sail on AAPT for the 2004 Sydney Hobart, but it was ruled as not allowed before the race. I'd imagine if they were not permitted in the racing circles, then it'd not be a viable product.
__________________
jannw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 14:47   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: Leopard 47PC 47 feet
Posts: 73
Re: Outleader Kites

Just FYI – I did get a response from “Sailchutes” and sure enough, their product requires a mast for a top haul. Not usable for power boat.

I did however find a dot com French website “Omegasails” and their product does work with a power boat and they even have an example of their set-up on a Lagoon 43. They claim 3 knots of boat speed in 12 knots of wind. Not great but it gets the job done.
Ed
__________________
edmundsteele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 16:08   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
IslandHopper's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bundaberg Queensland/Lake Bolac Victoria, Australia
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,199
Re: Outleader Kites

Sorry mate i did'nt realise you where a "stickless" cat, good luck....
__________________

__________________
IslandHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kites tandem tantrum Monohull Sailboats 1 21-05-2012 10:22
Omega Sails / Kites . . . Wow ! simonmd General Sailing Forum 1 27-12-2010 09:32
kites captjohn360 Multihull Sailboats 3 03-08-2004 12:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.