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Old 02-11-2013, 16:37   #16
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Originally Posted by tomdidit View Post

Personally, I have both liability and comprehensive because I feel it is a fair bet for me.

I would hope that if someone of like mind to you t-bones you that the two of you can have a drink and discuss how much you have saved in insurance. While your boat is sinking with no recourse.

I would also hope that if an insured boater t-bones you that you let them have a pass as well. If you don't believe in it I would think that you would not want to take that dirty insurance money! Or is it always someone elses responsibility?
Very good!
You are protecting the boat with comprehensive coverage and protecting all your other assets with the liability.
The OP apparently does not feel the need to protect either.

BTW: I actually did turn down an insurance settlement once, because it was just too damned absurd.
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Old 02-11-2013, 17:42   #17
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Tantalus is right. Insurance is betting against yourself. Insurance companies and banks have lobbied to change gaming laws for years to legalize their business. Ever hear of credit default swaps? NY state gaming laws were rewritten to make them legal and then became responsible for our (USA) financial collapse.
As far as the OP is concerned, I'm sure the boatyard has liability of its own. Dont ask for insurance for a day, just ask for insurance, get the certificate, then cancel it when your haul out is completed. Insurance brokers make money on your policy in the long haul and wont want to go through the paperwork to write a short term policy. Good luck.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:31   #18
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

Yep, cancel the insurance before you've paid for it.

Then hope a storm doesn't blow your boat over onto the Hinkley next to it!
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Old 03-11-2013, 13:52   #19
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

"... if my boat were to damage a million-dollar yacht they wouldn't be able to get much blood out of this stone."

When I was a youth with cheap boats and used cars I was a believer in liability-only. I could fix them and that my risk was below average, which proved to be true. But I always carried liability coverage out of a sense of responsibility to my neighbors. In the beginning I certainly had no money to loose, only debt coming out of college. But I had a sense of what was right.

I do not feel disingenuous saying I do not want any person who could make that leading statement around me. It is more the attitude than the lack of insurance. Go away.
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Old 03-11-2013, 14:28   #20
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

On liability for hauling, just an example:

The last time I was launched, I was not present and the yard guys left the boat tied to a bulkhead nearby, as agreed. When I returned I found my boat between to 60-foot gold platers with about 6 feet at each end. I also had a 15 knot breeze pinning me to the dock. I did have fenders, lines and twin screws, and I proceeded to rotate the boat out of the slot in front of many eyes. Yup, would have been easy to make a big mess; all it would have taken was a sharp wind shift or engine failure at the wrong time. There was simply no safe place to bail.
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Old 03-11-2013, 15:11   #21
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

To speak harshly ... There are two good reasons to buy insurance.

One is to protect others, as in a moral obligation.

The other is to protect one's assets.

A savy person might say that if he/she has no worthwhile assets, there is no need to protect nothing of value.

EVERYONE in America has a certain amount of protection per the bulk of protections bankruptcy delivers(per state laws), save those few protections one only gets when actually declaring bankruptcy.

If one can live with the embarrasment of not covering losses caused to others' properties, so be it.

If I'm not mistaken Harvard Business College teaches that insurance should be bought to protect one's assets ... if one has assets to protect and not for the purpose of moral self-worth.

If laws were more harsh regarding civil torts, maybe more people would investigate insurance.

I don't think(especially for the cheap price of liability), I could accept not having insurance.
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Old 03-11-2013, 15:48   #22
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

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Originally Posted by Tantalus View Post
I find it rather outrageous that someone would be called a fool and selfish for not buying into something which only in recent years been sold to the public as a civic "responsibility". This whole scheme has been sold to us by lawyers and insurance companies for, mainly, their own benefit.

Most insurance IS betting against yourself; life insurance, you bet you'll die before the insurance company thinks you will; car insurance, you bet you'll get in an accident sooner than the insurance company thinks you will.
I agree completely, Tantalus. I also find that people with insurance tend to leave more in the hands of others. If I'm completely responsible for the disposition of my own assets, then I am that much more careful of them. I've seen million-dollar yachts bumping into each other in mooring fields--why do the owners care? Their insurance policies will pay for a new goldplater.

Whereas we poured blood, sweat, and tears into our last $6000 sailboat, a significant percentage of our existing worldly assets at the time. I'd never leave the boatyard guys to handle a launch without my own presence and oversight, because a much higher percentage of my net worth is tied up in my four-figure boat. Maybe believing in my own ability to protect my assets and living with embarrassment makes me selfish. Frankly, I already live with embarrassment: the existing judgment of American consumer culture that our bumming lifestyle is irresponsible and worthless.

I don't have homeowner's insurance either, for a trailer in northern Maine. If a spark happens to jump from my wood stove across the road, I'd help my neighbor rebuild and do everything possible to help him. But I'm not willing to mortgage my one life for his peace of mind. I could trip someone in a convenience store by mistake and be sued into bankruptcy by it, but I don't have insurance against that either.

That being said, $125 for liability insurance may be a bet I'm willing to take--even against myself. Bets are exactly that, and for some the odds are worth it. Do I believe the insurance company will actually pay a red cent if my boat happens to ding another in the haul? Absolutely not.
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Old 03-11-2013, 16:44   #23
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

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Originally Posted by melissajenks View Post
I agree that the boatyard cares only about liability caused by any mishaps--and if my boat were to damage a million-dollar yacht they wouldn't be able to get much blood out of this stone. We tried BoatUS last time and they felt expensive, but Progressive is giving me a quote of $125 for a year's worth of liability. They were just getting into boat insurance when we bought our last boat, so it wasn't an option then, but it seems fairly reasonable now.

As far as foolishness is concerned--almost all insurance is a bet against oneself. Does believing that make me a fool? Or someone who hasn't enslaved herself to attorneys, million-dollar claims, greedy clients, and fear? And is thus able to live a life off of the grid and free of debt, mortgages, and expectation?
Progressive has been insuring boats for years. Mine is $125. I should have Insurance. If your boat broke loose and rammed into mine and did damage, I have the feeling you would be like "not able to get much blood out of this stone". No offense but it was the recklessness of uninsured peopled that caused all this haul outs and marinas to request Insurance. Once upon a time (years ago) boater did the right thing, pulled their own weight and if did damage, paid for it.
" And is thus able to live a life off of the grid and free of debt, mortgages, and expectation"?
Yes, but are you responsible?
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Old 03-11-2013, 17:11   #24
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
Progressive has been insuring boats for years. Mine is $125. I should have Insurance. If your boat broke loose and rammed into mine and did damage, I have the feeling you would be like "not able to get much blood out of this stone". No offense but it was the recklessness of uninsured peopled that caused all this haul outs and marinas to request Insurance. Once upon a time (years ago) boater did the right thing, pulled their own weight and if did damage, paid for it.
" And is thus able to live a life off of the grid and free of debt, mortgages, and expectation"?
Yes, but are you responsible?
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Old 03-11-2013, 17:21   #25
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

Some of you aren't really saying that $125 is too much to protect yourself from liability risk because you don't have any assets are you? Surely you have more to lose than the $125.
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Old 03-11-2013, 18:57   #26
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

One can make the argument that collision insurance or life insurance is betting against oneself, but liability insurance is a different matter altogether. Liability insurance is about taking responsibility for yourself and the results of your actions.

Doesn't matter if you are most careful captain on the planet or the most meticulous and careful in boat maintenance. Sometimes stuff happens.

In forty years of boating even discounting the ones that were my fault, I've had a few glitches could have resulted in collision. Only luck kept me from owing a repair bill on someone else's boat.

So, what's your plan if something beyond your control happens and you take the davits off the stern of a boat in the marina. No problem since you've got nothing to lose? It's the other guy's problem and if he has such a fancy boat he should have insurance? The marina should cover it?
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Old 03-11-2013, 22:11   #27
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

I was told a story from a fellow cruiser here in Ensenada who currently has his Tayana 37 hauled out. Why?...Some guy chartering a Beneteau 45 T-boned him and put a 2ft hole, luckily above the waterline. While charter skipper was at it, hit 2 more boats before docking and staggering into town to re-prime himself with more alcohol.
Liability Insurance does protect us somewhat...but...it also give the negligent an excuse to walk away unscathed.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:17   #28
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If by your own fault you damage someone else's boat, or injure someone, you should pay for it. Surely no one disagrees with this simple proposition.

If you have millions in assets and are sure you could cover any eventuality out of your own pocket, then by all means, self-insure.

If, however, you cannot be sure of being able to fulfill your responsibilities out of your own pocket, then you should have liability insurance. Imagine for a moment that you crash into another boat and a child is injured. The child's parents have no assets but a $2000 boat and a trailer and no insurance. What are you going to say to them? Is that an acceptable situation to you? What if the child dies because neither you nor they can afford to pay for the care? Will you be able to live with that? Or forget the child - what if you sink a much-loved boat belonging to a person who loves sailing and can't afford to replace it? Are you ok with putting the cost of your mistake onto that innocent person?

It is forbidden in most countries to drive without liability insurance. Considering the mentality expressed in some of these posts, probably it ought to be the same with boats.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:22   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor
I was told a story from a fellow cruiser here in Ensenada who currently has his Tayana 37 hauled out. Why?...Some guy chartering a Beneteau 45 T-boned him and put a 2ft hole, luckily above the waterline. While charter skipper was at it, hit 2 more boats before docking and staggering into town to re-prime himself with more alcohol.
Liability Insurance does protect us somewhat...but...it also give the negligent an excuse to walk away unscathed.
I don't quite understand what you're saying here - do you mean it would have been better if the drunken charter skipper had been uninsured?? So that your fellow cruiser would have been required to chase after the irresponsible drunk, hire lawyers at his own expense, and hope that the drunk has some assets, so that in three or four years he might perhaps, if he's really lucky, collect something? Wow.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:23   #30
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Re: One day worth of insurance for a haulout

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If by your own fault you damage someone else's boat, or injure someone, you should pay for it. Surely no one disagrees with this simple proposition.

If you have millions in assets and are sure you could cover any eventuality out of your own pocket, then by all means, self-insure.

If, however, you cannot be sure of being able to fulfill your responsibilities out of your own pocket, then you should have liability insurance. Imagine for a moment that you crash into another boat and a child is injured. The child's parents have no assets but a $2000 boat and a trailer and no insurance. What are you going to say to them? Is that an acceptable situation to you? What if the child dies because neither you nor they can afford to pay for the care? Will you be able to live with that? Or forget the child - what if you sink a much-loved boat belonging to a person who loves sailing and can't afford to replace it? Are you ok with putting the cost of your mistake onto that innocent person?

It is forbidden in most countries to drive without liability insurance. Considering the mentality expressed in some of these posts, probably it ought to be the same with boats.
"And is thus able to live a life off of the grid and free of debt, mortgages, and expectation"?
Enough said.
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