Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 26-01-2012, 12:25   #76
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
No disadvantage anywhere, surely.

My present boat performs well motoring and I don't find motoring unpleasant at all. I go to sea for pleasure and not as a test of how far I can go without my engine. On a windless calm day I can make 8.5 knots with the engine barely audible so why not? And a range of over 600 miles. In a hurry I can motor at 10 knots by cranking up the revs a bit. As much as I love to sail, I am delighted to have this alternative option -- who wouldn't be?
There's nothing wrong with having the options available to you. But nine times out of ten the folks who raise the iron jib when the wind drops low simply aren't good at light air sailing, or their boats aren't, or both.

For every one thread on here about < 10 knot wind speed sailing there are fifty talking about storm management.

Docking under sail, anchoring under sail, steering with the sails, and other aspects of "sailing" are rarely done and I'd be shocked if more than 10% of active sailors have done all of those within the last several years, if at all (count me in that number). So yeah, using your engine a lot makes you less of a sailor. It expands the distances you can travel and makes boating much more approachable.

In the same way you can argue that a twin engine setup is "safer" or "better" than a single engine because you can maneuver them so well and hell you even have a backup engine. But a guy who can park a 30' sailboat under sails is frankly a better sailor than a guy who manages the same thing with his engine every time. Saying someone could theoretically do that is a lot different than someone who does it regularly.

I know I'm rambling like crazy but in the end the "problem" with using an engine often is that you don't develop, practice, and hone the same maneuvers under sail. That could matter and it could not. It depends on what you want to get out of sailing, your personal preferences, and the amount of money you have to spend.
__________________

__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 12:47   #77
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,638
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
There's nothing wrong with having the options available to you. But nine times out of ten the folks who raise the iron jib when the wind drops low simply aren't good at light air sailing, or their boats aren't, or both.

For every one thread on here about < 10 knot wind speed sailing there are fifty talking about storm management.

Docking under sail, anchoring under sail, steering with the sails, and other aspects of "sailing" are rarely done and I'd be shocked if more than 10% of active sailors have done all of those within the last several years, if at all (count me in that number). So yeah, using your engine a lot makes you less of a sailor. It expands the distances you can travel and makes boating much more approachable.

In the same way you can argue that a twin engine setup is "safer" or "better" than a single engine because you can maneuver them so well and hell you even have a backup engine. But a guy who can park a 30' sailboat under sails is frankly a better sailor than a guy who manages the same thing with his engine every time. Saying someone could theoretically do that is a lot different than someone who does it regularly.

I know I'm rambling like crazy but in the end the "problem" with using an engine often is that you don't develop, practice, and hone the same maneuvers under sail. That could matter and it could not. It depends on what you want to get out of sailing, your personal preferences, and the amount of money you have to spend.

+1

If you don't practice docking or anchoring under sail in nice weather you're are going to do a bad job of it when the weather isn't so nice and the motor isn't available.

If you don't practice light air sailing when you have the time and a good forecast, you won't really be prepared when the motor packs up or you run out of fuel.
__________________

__________________
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
SailboatData
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 17:16   #78
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
There's nothing wrong with having the options available to you. But nine times out of ten the folks who raise the iron jib when the wind drops low simply aren't good at light air sailing, or their boats aren't, or both.
Good point. I'd also observe that too few cruisers have sails up to the task of light-air sailing. I constantly hear cruisers saying, "My boat just won't move in anything under 8 knots." (Or even 15 knots!)

That's rarely the boat's fault. That's either a function of the crew's skills or a deficiency in the sail inventory.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 17:47   #79
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Good point. I'd also observe that too few cruisers have sails up to the task of light-air sailing. I constantly hear cruisers saying, "My boat just won't move in anything under 8 knots." (Or even 15 knots!)

That's rarely the boat's fault. That's either a function of the crew's skills or a deficiency in the sail inventory.
I pin a lot of that on the "big ass genoa on a furler" situation for most production boats. No pole, a big heavy sail, no convenient way to fly anything else. On my first keelboat (an Ericson) I had literally a dozen headsails ranging from a storm jib to a 150% drifter, all with hanks. I just got used to the idea of being flexible with the headsails for whatever condition.

I just popped my bowsprit and am removing the roller furler, going back to regular hanks. I know it's unpopular, but I really miss the flexibility.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 18:58   #80
Registered User
 
Dkdoyle's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ruskin, Fl
Boat: Seafarer 26
Posts: 287
We are all in such a hurry to get where we are going. It's about the journey not the destination. Nothing wrong with using an engine. I don't enjoy the noise but to each their own.
__________________
Dkdoyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 20:51   #81
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkdoyle View Post
We are all in such a hurry to get where we are going. It's about the journey not the destination. Nothing wrong with using an engine. I don't enjoy the noise but to each their own.
It all depends upon whether you are a sailor or a cruiser. Day sailors and weekend sailors are into the sailing experience and really don't care much were they are going (except to avoid rocks, and shoals, etc.) since they will be returning to their land life once the boat is back in its slip/mooring/trailer.

For cruisers it is all about the destinations - exotic or at least quite different, the folks and new friends you meet in new anchorages in strange corners of the world. The boat (sail or power) is the means to get to those experiences. So pure sailing versus motoring/motor-sailing is not such a big deal - we just want to get to the new or next place.

But be you a sailor or cruiser or a hybrid, if you are "in a hurry" then you will not in all likelihood have a good experience. Relaxation and being able to enjoy the journey is the common denominator in my point of view.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2012, 21:27   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Oregon
Boat: 57' Laurent Giles Yawl
Posts: 755
Re: On Long Trips - Diesel or Wind ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I know I'm rambling like crazy but in the end the "problem" with using an engine often is that you don't develop, practice, and hone the same maneuvers under sail. That could matter and it could not. It depends on what you want to get out of sailing, your personal preferences, and the amount of money you have to spend.
Totally agree. I think some people push themselves to keep learning, and some don't. I agree that it's a lifestyle choice, but... I feel sailing is one of those things where you get a whole lot more out of it if you try harder.

Boat #1 had a flakey engine that was in a state of impending doom for a little over a year. This turned out to be really positive, because it made us push ourselves to learn how to sail for when the engine finally die (at any moment, we thought), and so we'd leave it ticking over in idle as we did nearly everything. Sail through tight channels and reef passes, on and off the anchor, whatever. We really felt like it may quit in the middle of the pass, so it'd be better to be sailing anyways.

Eventually we got good enough to not bother turning it on, since my range of when I considered it "necessary" had shrunk quite a bit, so I thought I should save it for when I actually needed it. This made me much more centered and happy about the engine's gradual decline, instead of obsessing over it or trying to get it fixed in the rural Pacific.

I feel that by practicing to be engineless, that's when I really began to know my boat. After that I could judge how powered up she was, and how much momentum she had really well. And this feel for the boat translated really well to heavy weather, which I didn't expect at all, but it turned out to make us a lot more comfortable in the stronger stuff.

Ok, last ramble. I also feel like the "keeping your speed up at sea" and motoring if you are below x knots is sometimes a safety issue and a very good idea-- like when we were harbor hopping around South Africa or something, but ... I just don't feel that most of the worlds waters are that dangerous and unstable. At least where I have been, there have only been a few passages where I felt the need to get into port ASAP. Most other places I felt like truly dangerous weather was not even possible, so whether you motor or not is a lifestyle choice.

That said, I am going to frigging motor through the ITCZ. I tried to sail through it last time, and it was a waste of time.
__________________

__________________
msponer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mahe 36: Rig and Sails kev&jo Fountaine Pajot 368 26-11-2017 11:06
Route Planning with GRIB - Work in Progress PjotrC OpenCPN 208 27-08-2012 01:31
Crew Wanted: Lady Sailor Seeks Old Salt Dog for Long Trips kiwiladysailor Crew Archives 48 02-11-2011 15:09
Cairns to Perth Part 1 Bartlettsrise Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 11-09-2011 00:38
For Sale: Raymarine ST60 Wind System clsailor Classifieds Archive 0 30-06-2011 04:42



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.