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Old 25-02-2016, 18:57   #106
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

Watch a few Ming Ming Youtube videos. Singlehanded all over the N.Atlantic.
Broke a rib west of Greenland & turned around & sailed back to England to get patched up. Then he took off again. Amazing.

EDIT: this is the Brit boatman spoke of.

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Old 25-02-2016, 19:04   #107
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Icebergs, extreme low temps..westerly currents....hmmmmm. I notice sailors who have sailed between New Foundland and Greenland ALWAYS go west. Remember this is with modern boats with all the equipment...

I could be proven wrong and I accept that this is a possibility... but my theory is it is UNLIKELY given the extreme conditions and short weather window. Possible but unlikely...and there is a history of too many charlatans making Viking landings up for financial reasons.
Study the N.Atlantic winds & by clicking on Earth you can see the currents also.
Stay north of gulfstream.

earth :: a global map of wind, weather, and ocean conditions
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:07   #108
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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...

As for the Viking era longships, I believe we have to go well into the 20th centuery to find faster and more efficient sailing craft. The terribly top heavy and notoriously slow and non weatherly crafts of the Spanish, Portuguese etc. could not even compare. ......
It is good not to exaggerate

Yes longboats were quite advanced regarding the X century but stating that no more efficient sailboat were designed till the XX century just does not make sense. If it was the case all countries would be using them till the XX century.

There were along the history boats that fulfilled many functions. The Drakkars where essentially raiding boats with very little load carrying capacity. The boats that the Portuguese used were basically of two types, the Caravela, the best upwind sailboat of its time that come from the Arab and med tradition and the Nau, essentially a ship with a huge cargo capacity, a very good stability and able to carry a huge number of cannons, giving it a huge fire power.

Basically the Caravelas were used to cartograph the winds on the Atlantic and when the trade winds were established the bigger and heavier boats with not good upwind potential could transport huge amounts of cargo.

Along the history there has been many amazing sailboats, or rowing/sailboats, like the Drakkars. Drakkars were great boats and very adapted to the use they were developed for as many other boats through the history, from the Roman triremes to the Venetian Galé to the fast sloops of the XVIII century or the Cutters from the XIX century, not to mention the Ships of the line of the XVIII century or the tea Clippers.

All great boats that fulfilled different needs. Some were a lot faster than the Drakkars while rowing, other much faster and better upwind, many more seaworthy and only on very special wind conditions could a Drakkar be faster downwind (or that type of boat) at the cost of a very little loading ability and no ability to carry big cannons.

Boats very similar to Drakkars were used in different countries on the medieval ages and a bit after as auxiliary navy vessels. In Portugal and on the Muslim coast of Africa they were called Fustas and they were used basically for the same Vikings used the Drakkars, for raiding and piracy, or to fight against piracy. If the Drakkars (exact model) would be better for that you could be sure that they would be using Drakkar copies.















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Old 25-02-2016, 19:08   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Icebergs, extreme low temps..westerly currents....hmmmmm. I notice sailors who have sailed between New Foundland and Greenland ALWAYS go west. Remember this is with modern boats with all the equipment...

I could be proven wrong and I accept that this is a possibility... but my theory is it is UNLIKELY given the extreme conditions and short weather window. Possible but unlikely...and there is a history of too many charlatans making Viking landings up for financial reasons.
Seems logical.. from Greenland the current does go West.. so to get back from Newfoundland they'd have gone East with the stream..
The Northern Circuit is for example.. Newfoundland - UK - Norway - Iceland - Greenland - Newfoundland.
There is also some evidence that this was a warm period that enabled them to settle and farm the land.. however climate change drove them away after a while.. look at some Good Pilot Charts.
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:13   #110
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Watch a few Ming Ming Youtube videos. Singlehanded all over the N.Atlantic.
Broke a rib west of Greenland & turned around & sailed back to England to get patched up. Then he took off again. Amazing.

EDIT: this is the Brit boatman spoke of.
To drive home the point, Ming Ming is a 21 foot single sail junk rigged boat though he does use a jib in light airs. The boat does not have an engine. Only oars and sails. The boat has been to the Azores, Iceland, Arctic, Jan Mayen, etc. Solo.

Minimal technology on board as well.

Later,
Dan
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:19   #111
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

Do we have any volunteers to row and sail a Dragon ship replica with oar duty from Greenland to New Foundland this summer to prove a point?
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:23   #112
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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Do we have any volunteers to row and sail a Dragon ship replica with oar duty from Greenland to New Foundland this summer to prove a point?
It was proven over a 1000 years ago.

Do you also believe the earth is flat and the moon landing was fake?
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:36   #113
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

Perhaps the Vikings used the Knarr for long distance & cargo. I am sure they had different designs for different purposes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ships

Thank you for the pics of some other purpose built vessels.

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Old 25-02-2016, 19:36   #114
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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....
BUT... which colonies became cultural, economic, trend setting, gargantuan civilizations?

...The America's were nothing but a fractured land of stone age inhabitants and then a giant Spanish gold mine and slave empire until the Englsh and Dutch Europeans arrived. That is why the Asians who crossed the archipelago between Northern Asia and Alaska are not recognized to any degree nor honored as perhaps they should be. Except for the Mayans, Aztecs and Incas... there was little to show...

The Vikings? they were a disappointment. I still maintain that they stopped at Greenland and said...nothing here...let's go home.
That is a funny view of history. Colonization of America or Australia with meaningful numbers only took place when Europe became overcrowded and that happened only in the XVIII century and over. Till then Europeans were not interested in leaving permanently their countries and colonizing, but in the wealth they can took from new lands.

The total population of US in 1800 was 5 millions, in 1850 23 millions, passing to 76 millions in 1900. It is easy to see when North America was meaningfully colonized. Nothing to do with the first Spanish or Portuguese settlements in America that dated from the XVI century.
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:42   #115
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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Do we have any volunteers to row and sail a Dragon ship replica with oar duty from Greenland to New Foundland this summer to prove a point?
Stay tuned-coming this summer:

Draken Harald Hårfagre | The largest viking ship built in modern times

http://www.drakenexpeditionamerica.c...-america-2016/

Cheers/ Len
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Old 25-02-2016, 19:44   #116
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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That is a funny view of history. Colonization of America or Australia with meaningful numbers only took place when Europe became overcrowded and that happened only in the XVIII century and over. Till then Europeans were not interested in leaving permanently their countries and colonizing, but in the wealth they can took from new lands.

The total population of US in 1800 was 5 millions, in 1850 23 millions, passing to 76 millions in 1900. It is easy to see when North America was meaningfully colonized. Nothing to do with the first Spanish or Portuguese settlements in America that dated from the XVI century.
The entire population in England in 1800 was 8.9 million! C'mon get some perspective here.
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Old 25-02-2016, 20:00   #117
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

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Do we have any volunteers to row and sail a Dragon ship replica with oar duty from Greenland to New Foundland this summer to prove a point?
There is one that is going from Norway to Greenland next may. I suppose they will sail the boat back.

They asked for volunteers some months ago and in less than a month they had much more than what they needed and had to select them.

But even if I believe that it is possible to do that there is a big confusion regarding all this subject. It is believed by historians that the boats that the Vikings used to go to Greenland for colonization were not the Drakken warships but heavier slower cargo ships of that time, the knarr:


The Knarr were similar to open cargo ships of that time and were also known by the name of Barca in what regards latin languages.

Here a good article about that voyage and those boats:
CALLING ALL VIKINGS: Volunteer Crew Needed for Transatlantic Voyage on a 115-Foot Longship
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Old 25-02-2016, 20:05   #118
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The entire population in England in 1800 was 8.9 million! C'mon get some perspective here.




With quite a few scattered around a world that was predominantly English, Scots Irish and Welsh.. Africa, Indian sub Continent, OZ, NZ, China, Burma to name a few..
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Old 25-02-2016, 20:06   #119
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

I wonder if they had AIS, EPRIB, a GPS Plotter, Auto Pilot, MOB drills, sea sick medicine, and what radio system would they be using back in the day?

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Old 25-02-2016, 20:09   #120
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Re: Oldest European Settlement in US

You know it could make some sense if the Crazy Vikings had made it to New Foundland... could explain the Newfie's behavior...
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