OK to go to Cuba if you are a US Citizen?

[Scot McPherson]

Originally Posted by Deaf Sailor

Pssh "free". Nothing's free except for air.

Really? Did you know that from a health care point of view for newborns, that Cuba is the very best place to be born? They have the best quality of healthcare or newborns. I cannot honestly remember the source of that study, but it was published on NPR, which is just about the only set of radio stations I listen to.

[HopCar]

"We pay nothing in our province,..."
I suspect you do pay for medical care one way or another.
Doctors don't work for free.

[Scot McPherson]

Taxes pay for healthcare

Edit: in Canada

[Greenhand]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

Really? Did you know that from a health care point of view for newborns, that Cuba is the very best place to be born? They have the best quality of healthcare or newborns. I cannot honestly remember the source of that study, but it was published on NPR, which is just about the only set of radio stations I listen to.

It is true, healthcare in Cuba is universal and excellent, whenever they have supplies. I would still argue that there is a pretty high cost in terms of other aspects of life.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by HopCar

"We pay nothing in our province,..."
I suspect you do pay for medical care one way or another.
Doctors don't work for free.

Correct, taxpayers do.

Corporate rates in Canada are 15% versus 35% in the USA.

Personal taxes are variable depending on the jurisdiction, somewhat higher but still comparable to most States.

Federally, a balanced budget will exist next year, many provinces have balanced or near balanced budgets. Canada spends about 33% less on healthcare as a percentage of GDP versus the USA, and has a longer live expectancy.

Universal healthcare is the one subject no politician who wants to get elected will argue against, it is considered as high a right as the First Amendment (or the Second by some) is in the USA.

Different perspectives on priorities.

[HopCar]

The US government spends about 20% of the GDP. The Canadian government spends about 40% of the GDP. I suspect most the difference is health care spending.

Canada does pay less for health care, about 12% GDP as opposed to 17% of GDP in the USA.

In the end health care is expensive for everyone.

Cuban health care is not all it's cracked up to be. They have terrible shortages of drugs and their doctors are not well compensated. There are a lot of Cuban doctors in Miami who came here to work jobs other than as a doctor because they live better here than they did in Cuba.

Of coarse a lot of Cuban doctors and dentists practice here unlicensed. You rarely hear about it but once in a while someone gets killed and then it's in the news.

[Scot McPherson]

Notice I said for new borns...they give the highest priority to natal and post natal care. It truly is listed as the best place in the whole world to be a newborn for health care.

[Deaf Sailor]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

Notice I said for new borns...they give the highest priority to natal and post natal care. It truly is listed as the best place in the whole world to be a newborn for health care.

Cool. Newborns are great, but you gotta have healthy people to make 'em!

But my point was the "free" aspect not Cuba's quality of medical care. Just because you didn't open your wallet right then and there does not make it "free".

I'm sure you going to ask you ask why I think universal "free" health care is undesirable here's why:

I haven't visited a doctor (out of need) since I had to get a physical exam to play freshman football. I eat right, exercise, and assess things before I do them so I don't end up in the hospital.

Compare that to the obese diabetic who has "free" insulin/care/whatever and continues to stuff ice cream down their gullet. Or the drug addict that keeps passing out and injuring themselves (or OD'ing). The diabetic is on welfare & food stamps and the addict breaks into houses and steals to feed their habit and I'm paying for their care.
That's how I see it.

Oh, and going back to the "nothing's free except air" we probably pay for that as well with the formation of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)!

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Deaf Sailor

Oh, and going back to the "nothing's free except air" we probably pay for that as well with the formation of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)!

I decided I wanted "free" healthcare after causing a class war that shut down another thread when I realized that any person in the free world, except an American, is "free" to retire early and travel the world without the burden of having to pay onerous health care costs, essentially making it possible to live on $500/mo budget.

An American cannot do this until they are 65 or older.

W/ regards to your logic about not having to have healthcare, it is people just like you - people who believe that they should not have to get insurance until they are actually sick or at risk of becoming sick - who cause health insurance to be high. For insurance of ANY kind to be effective, it must be continuously in effect, even when you don't need it. What separates US from Canadian plans is that in the US, you must continue to pay even when you have no income, or you will not be eligible for healthcare (though in fact you will probably get it anyway as an indigent)

[DeepFrz]

That is to become Canadian. Unlimited healthcare for life anywhere in the world,

More misinformation. A Canadian traveler better have supplemental health care coverage. It is even recommended for travel to other Canadian Provinces.

By the way, Cuba trains many doctors throughout the Caribbean, Central and South America. Their health care is really second to none IMHO.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by HopCar

"We pay nothing in our province,..."
I suspect you do pay for medical care one way or another.
Doctors don't work for free.

As a Canadian (Ontario) who spent between $7,000 and $10,000 dollars per month for drugs for the last three years to keep my wife alive. I can tell you that the Canadian Universal Healthcare system is not what you think it is.

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I decided I wanted "free" healthcare after causing a class war that shut down another thread when I realized that any person in the free world, except an American, is "free" to retire early and travel the world without the burden of having to pay onerous health care costs, essentially making it possible to live on $500/mo budget.

An American cannot do this until they are 65 or older.

W/ regards to your logic about not having to have healthcare, it is people just like you - people who believe that they should not have to get insurance until they are actually sick or at risk of becoming sick - who cause health insurance to be high. For insurance of ANY kind to be effective, it must be continuously in effect, even when you don't need it. What separates US from Canadian plans is that in the US, you must continue to pay even when you have no income, or you will not be eligible for healthcare (though in fact you will probably get it anyway as an indigent)

Are you sure about that. I believe the three main cost drivers of insurance
cost are fraud, unhealthy life styles, and abuse/misuse of medical care. eg showing up at the emergency room with a minor cut that a band-aid would fix. And believe me abuse/misuse is rampant, especially in large cities. And lets not forget the stiffing regulations, etc mostly caused by reckless corruption of the tort system.

UN-insured with pre existing conditions either paid a lot more for coverage,
or were denied coverage before this latest government debacle. And had
little if any effect on rates.

I have been the recipient of a "universal heath care" system for over thirty years. Called the VA. Need I say more !

And this thread is so far off course that IMHO it's on the rocks !

[cheoah]

Health care is very good in Cuba overall. Doctors are well trained and paid around $35/month. Less than a farmer or taxi driver in many instances. They supplement their income by doing procedures for people outside of official channels. They are one group that is officially excluded from relaxed travel restrictions. Many go work overseas mad many don't come home. They are common in Venezuela.

The system is far from perfect but it's pretty good. Access to Meds can be hard, I always leave a ton of Advil etc. they are used to doing without. Not big pill poppers. Infant mortality is among the lowest in the world. Babies are not common there, and getting an abortion is like going to get your teeth cleaned. A woman will literally do it on the way to work sometimes. For those of you in other Latin American countries, you know that babies are everywhere. Babies having babies. I'm always on the lookout for babies in Cuba but there just aren't many.

Don't worry. About the passport. They are smart people and do in fact stamp the visa in lieu of the passport. You have to ask them to stamp your book and half the time they look at you puzzled.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

I have been the recipient of a "universal heath care" system for over thirty years. Called the VA. Need I say more !

And this thread is so far off course that IMHO it's on the rocks !

Sorry, I didn't mean to be personal with that comment, but it is true that insurance is only effective when it is used to insure "unexpected" events, not when it is used to selectively cover "expected" events.

Anyway, I was talking to a friend of mine today from Canada and he was telling me a lot of stories. It seems that many "well employed" Canadians prefer to come to the US where they pay cash for their healthcare, apparantly including the Prime Minister.