Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2015, 01:45   #1
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Offshore With No Flag Flying

Is this technically or specifically unlawful? US recreational vessels are the context.

A search gives lots of etiquette response but can't find the "law" requiring display unequivocally. Is there such a law?

Also what do the members think would be common ramifications of sailing US waters offshore with no flag displayed?
__________________

__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 07:12   #2
Registered User
 
Prairie Chicken's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada or Spain
Boat: Jeanneau SO 43 DS
Posts: 1,116
Images: 1
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

I'll be interested to hear an answer too. I noticed it first when we did a Transatlantic aboard the Queen Mary II & they struck their colours once out of the harbour. I guess it had never occurred to me but I can see some logic in it.
__________________

__________________
Prairie Chicken
><((((>`..`..`...><((((>.
`..`..`...><((((>`..`..` ...><((((>
Prairie Chicken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 07:38   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Puget Sound, WA State
Boat: Yamaha 1984, 30' sloop, Off Tempo
Posts: 2
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

In our trip around the Pacific we saw few flags. Offshore they only get in the way and no one to see them anyway.
__________________
Off Tempo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 07:54   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,932
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

There is a legal basis:

See http://www.hg.org/ship-registration.html

But, in practice it depends on venue. Some places are sticklers for flag etiquette and some could care less, especially for recreational vessels. In places that don't care, like here in the San Blas, I furl my country of registry flag to save wear and tear on it. Its been furled and covered all season. I do fly the host country flag (Panama in this case) just to make it less likely than an official gets curious about the boat's status in the country...and a San Blas (Guna Yala) flag just for fun and I think the Kuna like to see that.

Truly offshore (not in any countries territorial waters) who is going to care? Unless law enforcement/military comes by to check you out.

These laws, like most maritime law, were originally written for ships. As recreational vessels became popular they just defaulted to being covered by these sometimes cumbersome laws (see Jones Act and MRAD waiver as an example).
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 08:14   #5
Moderator
 
Seaworthy Lass's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Boat: Aluminium cutter rigged sloop
Posts: 12,813
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

I don't know about regulations for US vessels, but for Aussie recreational vessels the only times at which a flag is required to be flown are: "entering, leaving, and underway within a foreign port in daylight".

As I understand it, a flag is not required to be flown offshore.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears or the sea." Isak Dinesen
"To me the simple act of tying a knot is an adventure in unlimited space." Clifford Ashley
Seaworthy Lass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 08:58   #6
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,576
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
I don't know about regulations for US vessels, but for Aussie recreational vessels the only times at which a flag is required to be flown are: "entering, leaving, and underway within a foreign port in daylight".

As I understand it, a flag is not required to be flown offshore.
This sounds about right for Canada, too. It's pointless and hard on the ensign to fly it on passage.
__________________
Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 10:04   #7
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,058
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

Quote:
Originally Posted by four winds View Post
Is this technically or specifically unlawful? US recreational vessels are the context.

A search gives lots of etiquette response but can't find the "law" requiring display unequivocally. Is there such a law?

Also what do the members think would be common ramifications of sailing US waters offshore with no flag displayed?
None!
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 10:39   #8
Registered User
 
Grateful's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40
Posts: 109
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

I like to have it handy and will unfurl on the rare occasion I am close enough to another vessel in daylight for them to see it, but otherwise, why would anyone fly any ensign when off shore?
__________________
Grateful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 10:52   #9
One of Those
 
Canibul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Boat: Catalac 12M
Posts: 3,209
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

Really, what purpose is it, anyway? Do I care where that white Beneteau is registered in a harbor full of white Bennies? Nope. Do I feel some need to wave a flag and say Look where I'm From!! Nope.

Useless bits of cloth from a bygone era. Funny, though, to see people who despise paper charts all gung ho about hanging colored bits of cloth from their spreaders.
__________________
Expat life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/
Canibul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 11:33   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,932
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
...

Useless bits of cloth from a bygone era. ...
Most signal flags I agree are obsolete, but country of registry, Q flag, and host country flags are still in wide use. None really matter offshore, but entering/leaving port can matter (especially a Q flag).

Ive never had an official get bent out of shape if I was being a little casual about flag etiquette, but I have had them remind me a few times.
__________________
belizesailor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 11:33   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Boat: Coast 30
Posts: 177
pirate Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

A few decades ago commercial fishermen were tied up in Steveston harbour, located in British Columbia Canada. protesting Canada Fisheries regulations by flying skull and crossed bones pirate flags. The first two vessels to clear the harbour entrance were arrested by the Royal Canadian Mounted police and taken to court.

Due to the reprocessed History of pirate lore is seems some vessel owners think that it is romantic fun to fly these flags, and even dress up in ridiculous regaleira
with plastic cutlasses tied around their waist at tall ship events and boat shows. with no thought about how the legal system will react IF they do not take the flag down before leaving port. So when off shore this is one you should not fly.
__________________
coastalexplorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 11:37   #12
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,770
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

i have flag
i do not sail under any flag
i respect nations i enter and leave.
at present i do not feel respect for my homeland due to the governmental disrespect of the citizenry of my homeland
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 11:43   #13
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,058
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

How did this get to pirate and signal flags?
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 12:13   #14
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

To be more specific, I'm curious about the US flag being flown near shore while coastal cruising. Or crossing from Apalachacola to Tarpon Springs and around the Keys.

If not flying the flag, is that an open invitation to a USCG boarding experience?
__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2015, 12:20   #15
Registered User
 
four winds's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wandering the US Gulf Coast
Boat: 78 Pearson323 Four Winds
Posts: 2,138
Re: Offshore With No Flag Flying

And for what it's worth, I recently did my first roll and tip repaint of my stern. So currently have no name and home port displayed.
__________________

__________________
Life begins at the waters edge.
four winds is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
offshore

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Far Offshore is Offshore? Jay Jennings General Sailing Forum 57 30-03-2017 15:16
Canadian flag or change to British flag on buying boat drcot3 Dollars & Cents 5 26-02-2015 12:09
How OffShore to be an 'Offshore" passage? twistedtree Seamanship & Boat Handling 68 03-02-2013 15:39
Aussie Flag or US Flag on Vessel ? AllezCat Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 48 25-05-2011 06:14
is Flying the US flag safe anymore? Ram Health, Safety & Related Gear 74 05-06-2006 05:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.