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Old 08-12-2008, 19:57   #61
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First I would suggest that yes the skipper's experience/talent is probably the # ONE factor with regard to safety at sea. That said, this is not the question and I'm assuming that for this thread, this question, it is only the boat that is being discussed. And so, if I'm on track there?

I would say I can't possibly help anyone pick a particular boat (especially considering my experience), but I'm sure it would be wise to evaluate what the cost of failure would be and whom would bear that cost (loved one's left behind?) and also what one's risk tolerance is. And so, if I'm on track there?

This debate is very personal and will never end.

I sure like following the thread though.

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Old 10-12-2008, 16:03   #62
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Almost hate to keep it going, but...

I started looking at a Pearson 422 (on the Mahina list) because I liked the layout and price. In doing research on it (lots of info out on Pearsons) I came across and interview with Bill Shaw (the Pearson guy) on the question. He basically said that there isn't any "real" market for the "ocean" boat so noone really builds to that. But he said there are lots of good production boats that can be upgraded for "ocean" by addressing general areas like hatches etc. So besides the sailor it isn't the boat brand, but how it is equipped.
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Old 10-12-2008, 16:40   #63
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Plenty of light boats have also sunk while heavier ones survived.Especially in collisions.
There is a lot of floating debris out here which would sink mosy lightly built boats. I don't worry about them or whales in my steel hull. Thin skins are easily penetrated by sharp objects, regardless of their initial stiffness ( both at sea and on chatlines).Balsa cores may be initially strong, but tend to have far more problems down the line than solid material.
It's naive to believe that after you have put adequate ground trackle and all the equipment and groceries you need to cruise in remote areas, that your boat will still be light. The difference in percentage between an empty and fully loaded boat will be much greater in a boat that was originaly designed with the naive assumption that she would be light while cruising.
Wanna get your cruising over with quickly? If you hate cruising that much, why go?
Brent
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Old 10-12-2008, 17:27   #64
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I second Chuck on his opinion.
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Old 10-12-2008, 18:58   #65
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The skipper is the skipper experienced on inexperienced either way I want a strong boat at sea. A boat does not have to be heavy to be strong. Designers use the displacement length ratio to determine among other things the load carrying capacity of the boat and it speed potential. Boats are considered heavy when their D/L ratio is around 300 and ultra light would be bellow 100. I sail a steel hull Radford 450 and if I remember right the D/L was 188 which puts her in the light category. She is not a race horse but I don't remember another 45 foot boat passing us either. In this months edition of Compass Magazine a caribbean publication there is and article about a fiberglass cruising boat that sunk on a short 30 mile hop between Martinique and St Luca and the crew spent 2 desperate days in there dingy headed to Panama before they were rescued. The point being you don't have to be mid ocean to sink and many sinkings come from hitting some thing and not just weather. Strong can be light and fast & skippers are skippers
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Old 10-12-2008, 19:30   #66
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John Neale has a post and a list on his website which is quite helpful.

Mahina Expedition - Offshore Cruising Instruction
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:42   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
It's naive to believe that after you have put adequate ground trackle and all the equipment and groceries you need to cruise in remote areas, that your boat will still be light. The difference in percentage between an empty and fully loaded boat will be much greater in a boat that was originaly designed with the naive assumption that she would be light while cruising.
Wanna get your cruising over with quickly? If you hate cruising that much, why go?
Brent
So, I get a 50 foot catamaran with a displacement of 8500kg and build it from solid fiberglass or steel and it weighs probably 7000kg in the false belief that this is a good thing.

Add an anchor and chain, a carton of beer a tin of baked beans, some fuel and water, a dinghy outboard and 2 people and its on its lines. Take more gear and its dangerous.

Or

I build same boat from light timber epoxy and it weighs 4700kg leaving3800kg, an extra 3300kg to carry gear more than you're "solid" boat

Or

I build foam Kevlar epoxy and come in around 4000kg and can carry 4500kg

You see, in those last 2 examples I can carry cruising gear and still be at design weight or less and still perform well

In the first example I have an inherently dangerous boat that, if carrying any gear will sail like a pig

Dave
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Old 25-09-2011, 04:04   #68
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Re: ocean going

This is my first post, please be nice!

I did some offshore racing in NZ on a Farr 1020, (10.20 metres, 3700kg), and had some pretty hairy experiences in the Cook Str. Winds on one trip were 40-50kts against a strong current, storm jib, trysail, and 30-hrs of extreme discomfort, but we felt safe enough. It helped that the skipper had 40yrs of experience and kept remarking cheerfully about what a marvellous little boat it was. Farr Yacht Design

More recently, on a run from Taiwan to Hong Kong, winds were averaging 50kts and gusting over 60kts for about 24-hrs. We broke the boom on the first night and had to tidy up the mess in the dark, continuing under headsail only until dawn, then got the trysail up. The skipper pointed out that the nearest place to get the boom fixed was Hong Kong. On the third day, we were so pleased to see the winds dropping to a mere 30-40kts that we put the spinnacker up again. We set a new ISAF record for Taipei-HK, breaking the time set by Ellen Macarthur - in a Janneau Sun Odyssey 49.

Both trips were pretty scary, but after the first few hours you realise that the boat is not going to fall apart any time soon and start to relax. As time passes, and you start to get tired out by the weather, the ability to prepare hot food takes on an almost mystical significance. If your autohelm can't cope, and you're in busy shipping lanes anyway, you need to have an alert energetic person driving - food and a place to rest in comfort are essential between watches.
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:27   #69
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Re: ocean going

Not to flog a dead horse , but you do realise this thread is nearly 3 years old.

Dave
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