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Old 24-04-2009, 19:08   #16
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Put them all in Lido 14's. At least there would be a race and a very competitive race at that....provided that none of their egos are so large they sink the boat.
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Old 24-04-2009, 19:31   #17
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I'm not sure anything ever did.
What about the winged keel?
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Old 24-04-2009, 19:45   #18
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Put them all in Lido 14's. At least there would be a race and a very competitive race at that.
Ah, yes, but that misses the point, I think. If it were all just to see who could finish first in identical vessels that were available to anyone with a few dollars to spare, I suppose that might prove something about individual accomplishment, but the America's Cup was never about that - that describes the Olympics.

The America's Cup has always been about bragging rights among the crème de la crème, those wealthy elites in a league of their own for whom mere expense is no impediment in their single-minded quest to piss further than the other guy with similarlly deep pockets.

There are plenty of serious racing sailors who do as you suggest and compete head-to-head in, say, Stars or Etchells, but who are drawn to the A-Cup like moths to a flame. It is that same something that makes a kid in a go-cart on a dirt track dream of racing in the Indy 500, or makes the Little Leaguer who stands barely four feet high dream of hitting one out of the park with two out in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of the World Series.

Any person with a competitive streak is drawn to test himself at the highest level of competition, I think. For those who excel at the game of racing sailboats around the cans, the America's Cup holds a special fascination - years of struggle may land you a place on a competing team; good fortune may win you the right to compete for the ugly old cup itself; a minor mistake at an inopportune time may result in defeat and make the entire combined devoted efforts of countless people over months and years a total loss.

Pretty high stakes.

And yes, as Paul said, fun to watch.

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Old 24-04-2009, 20:04   #19
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There are plenty of serious racing sailors who do as you suggest and compete head-to-head in, say, Stars or Etchells, but who are drawn to the A-Cup like moths to a flame. It is that same something that makes a kid in a go-cart on a dirt track dream of racing in the Indy 500, or makes the Little Leaguer who stands barely four feet high dream of hitting one out of the park with two out in the bottom of the ninth in the seventh game of the World Series.

Any person with a competitive streak is drawn to test himself at the highest level of competition, I think. For those who excel at the game of racing sailboats around the cans, the America's Cup holds a special fascination - years of struggle may land you a place on a competing team; good fortune may win you the right to compete for the ugly old cup itself; a minor mistake at an inopportune time may result in defeat and make the entire combined devoted efforts of countless people over months and years a total loss.

Pretty high stakes.

And yes, as Paul said, fun to watch.

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I spent most of my early years in sailing racing in a very competitive one design class, J-24's. I knew many excellent sailors pretty well and was acquainted with most of the top pros like Ken Read, Kostanecki, Baird, etc. as well as sailmakers like Dave Curtis who also raced in the Class.

I am pretty sure the only sailors who really wanted to compete in the America's Cup were the top pros, and it's my opinion that their interest in that was primarily financial.

I honestly don't know a single one design sailor whose SAILING competitive instincts pulled them to the America's Cup.... they could find all the competition they wanted in the one design classes, particularly the J-24, Star and Etchells. They could find it at the top National and International Championsihp events, and of course in the Olympics.

Now if you want to talk about other kinds of competition, like fund raising, running a large complex organization, developing the best sails, hull and rig, etc. the America's Cup offers plenty of opportunity for all that.

But that has little to do with sailing skill.
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Old 24-04-2009, 22:06   #20
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I think you're actually co-signing what I wrote, speedoo. The America's Cup is a pissing contest for the fabulously wealthy. For the crew members who do the actual sailing, it's a contest of skill, talent and expertise between the best of the best - of course they demand to be paid commensurate with their talent.

Think of the rich owners of the competing A-Cup racing teams as the owners of teams in the NFL - they are battling the other owners with their organizations, their media contacts and yes, their attorneys, desperately seeking any advantage over any other team owner for . . . what? . . . a crystal football?

I would submit that winning provides them with a psychic satisfaction that none of us can fully comprehend, and I would further submit that Larry Ellison and Ernesto Berterelli are competing even above the level where the NFL owners vie. After all, an NFL team is a continuing enterprise, with each new season pretty much like the last.

The A-Cup, however, starts with a blank sheet of paper for each iteration. Teams have to be assembled, strategies and tactics determined, vessels designed, built and tested over years, culminating in a series of races where first one to four wins walks away with all the glory - while the loser walks away with nothing!

Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything of a similar nature.

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Old 15-05-2009, 13:39   #21
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From today's 'Lectronic Latitude, comes word that the next edition of The America's Cup will be a match race between BMW Oracle and Alinghi next February:

* * *

"Yesterday the Commercial Division of the New York Supreme Court upheld an earlier decision by the state's Court of Appeals that — barring an unlikely mutual consent agreement — Alinghi must meet BMW Oracle Racing for a Deed of Gift America's Cup match on February 7 or 8 of next year."

* * *

For the "It's Official" story, and a great pic, go to:

Latitude 38 - The West's Premier Sailing & Marine Magazine

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Old 16-05-2009, 06:19   #22
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I see more true competition on weeknights on the Patapsco River.

Americas' Cup? Pfffffffffffft!

I don't know who is more obnoxious the owners or the crews.
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Old 16-05-2009, 11:02   #23
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I like the America's Cup even with all it's crap. They push technology along. This BMW/Oracle tri is not built for even moderate conditions but, I believe it sails at 1.5 to 2 times the wind speed. I don't think they even have downwind sails because their apparent wind is never that far aft.
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Old 16-05-2009, 16:13   #24
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If it were all just to see who could finish first in identical vessels that were available to anyone with a few dollars to spare, I suppose that might prove something about individual accomplishment, but the America's Cup was never about that - that describes the Olympics. TaoJones
I might be forgiven for thinking those on this post were not aware of the recent Louis Vuitton Pacific Series, which is a piety:

Louis Vuitton Pacific Series

~10 AC teams competed against each other using "modified to be near identical" yachts. Team NZ and Oracle provided their last AC yachts for this, and were raced in matching pairs (pair of TNZ or pair of Oracle).

While IMHO it was flawed in a number of ways (for example, Team NZ automatically advanced to the final series against the winning challenger, the course was much shorter than AC races, and due to time constraints best of 7 and best of 5 series were reduced to best of 5 and best of 3, respectively), it is the closet yet to "all things being equal except for the crews.....
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