Now I understand how poor i am.

[Boatguy30]

Foreign buyers are a major driver of the real estate rebound in S Fl. Just like London, Auckland and major city. Crazy world.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by JFN

No cause or effect here - people making a living wage is good for everyone and the community - no evidence to the contrary. Even Henry Ford knew he had to pay his employees enough so they could buy his cars. Sorry for going off topic.

You really should study basic economics before making a "Bernie Sanders" post like that. Digging ditches is worth a certain percentage of doing brain surgery. Raise the wages of the ditch digger and the income of the brain surgeon will rise proportionally. And, more jobs in the USA are sent overseas because manufacturing in the USA becomes less competitive.

A small bit of common sense should tell you that.

[Boatguy30]

I think the point is in Europe a brain surgeon makes 200k. In the US he also probably owns the imagining center and maybe is partners in an outpatient treatment center, maybe makes 2 million. Ditch diggers make more in Europe and the "super genius" doctors make less. All types of quality of life surveys have them ahead.

Other minor issue is borrowed money ( U.S. Government debt) pays for 1/2 of all U.S. Healthcare.

[4arch]

My wife, daughter, and I are considering moving from MD to FL in the 2-3 year time frame. We’d likely move to the Palm Beach County area as we have family there and have been going there for years so have a lot of familiarity with it.

Looking at some of the real estate prices in that part of FL is quite astounding. Canal homes with no real view for a couple million, riverfront homes for multi-millions. Here on the Chesapeake, 2 or 3 million could buy all but the most exclusive waterfront properties, while down there some of the properties in that price range really seem like nothing special. It makes me wonder where all the money is coming from, especially considering wages in FL tend to be lower than MD.

Seeing that we would want a single family home with 3-4 bedrooms in a top notch school district, our budget would probably dictate buying a landlocked home and keeping any boat we would have at a commercial marina, or hoping we could find a slip at a private residence.

[SVCASSANDRA]

I wouldn't mind being that poor! When you have no choice you would be amazed on how wonderful you can live on a s.S. Budget and be happy in the sun singing like a lark. And....There is a lot of love and joy to go around!!! Take care and god bless
Capt. Carrole

[Stumble]

4arch,

A lot of the money is coming from New England. Retirees liquidate their homes, move to Florida, and buy. Locals in large parts of Florida are priced out of waterfront areas.

[JFN]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You really should study basic economics before making a "Bernie Sanders" post like that. Digging ditches is worth a certain percentage of doing brain surgery. Raise the wages of the ditch digger and the income of the brain surgeon will rise proportionally. And, more jobs in the USA are sent overseas because manufacturing in the USA becomes less competitive.

A small bit of common sense should tell you that.

Thanks for the feed back, no need for the stereo type though. . This isn't the forum but I respectfully disagree. There is no evidence of a negative impact on the overall community economics resulting from a rise in the minimum wage, or any connection between the surgeon and the worker - but the worker will spend not invest any increase and better the economics of the entire community.

[Skuzzlebutt]

Originally Posted by JFN

Thanks for the feed back, no need for the stereo type though. . This isn't the forum but I respectfully disagree. There is no evidence of a negative impact on the overall community economics resulting from a rise in the minimum wage, or any connection between the surgeon and the worker - but the worker will spend not invest any increase and better the economics of the entire community.

I'd sure like to see the 'evidence' of this statement. And your degree in economics.

Sure, I'd like to see the lowest class improve, but at their demands, not government mandated fiat. I've owned business that paid 'minimum wage', and would have quickly gone out of business if wages doubled without adding about 1/3 to the prices. And of course, I'd need the profits on the business to increase to double my income, too. So add another 1/3 to the prices. Simple math, no economic surveys needed.

And if the worker is to be any better off, he best 'invest' a bit. But will he? Not under the all-knowing programs of the government, which keeps interest rates in the sub-1% range.

Of course, a little common sense, which seems to be lacking here would help. Good luck finding it in this forum.

[rwidman]

People make minimum wage because they have minimum skills. What many fail to realize is; having minimum skills is by choice. These people made a choice to not pay attention in school or to drop out of school. They made a choice not to go to trade school or take a job as an apprentice. They made a choice not to study a skill on their own.

There has always been a scale of pay being based on skill and education. There always will be. And if the bottom pay is raised artificially, all the others will eventually rise proportionally and the poor folks will be just as poor as they were when it comes to purchasing power.

Where it really hurts (and again, many folks fail to realize this) is senior citizens with fixed incomes. Money that bought the medicine and groceries when the minimum wage was $4 per hour doesn't buy them when the minimum wage is raised and inflation follows. Inflation also raises the monetary value of their homes and in turn, the property taxes. Many seniors are forced out of their long time homes because of inflation.

[thomm225]

Lucky that you went when you did because quite soon it will be an oven. It's similar to Winter up here with folks staying indoors

Also, if you did have a place down there on the water, it still gets old after a while and you'd be inside arguing with folks on CF about which is the best sail to use in a certain situation or some such.

I believe a few CF'ers from up this way will soon be heading down there. Many will spend the summer months docked at a marina with the ac maxed out.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rwidman

People make minimum wage because they have minimum skills.

Hogwash!

What if you are a talented artist? or writer? That cannot find a job

Artist's are not paid the way a low level Computer Tech is. And many tech's cannot write at all. Or play music, paint, etc

It's just the nature of the beast these days.

Try not to be so narrow minded........

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by rwidman

People make minimum wage because they have minimum skills. What many fail to realize is; having minimum skills is by choice. These people made a choice to not pay attention in school or to drop out of school. They made a choice not to go to trade school or take a job as an apprentice. They made a choice not to study a skill on their own.

There has always been a scale of pay being based on skill and education. There always will be. And if the bottom pay is raised artificially, all the others will eventually rise proportionally and the poor folks will be just as poor as they were when it comes to purchasing power.

Where it really hurts (and again, many folks fail to realize this) is senior citizens with fixed incomes. Money that bought the medicine and groceries when the minimum wage was $4 per hour doesn't buy them when the minimum wage is raised and inflation follows. Inflation also raises the monetary value of their homes and in turn, the property taxes. Many seniors are forced out of their long time homes because of inflation.

Where were you during this last recession? People who made a living wage lost everything...their house, their savings...basically their lives. Many ended up working for close to minimum wage while their jobs went overseas due to your fat-cats that you obviously support. I just retired as a Toolmaker. I barely got out alive, turned off the light and locked the door, since all those jobs are gone too. A Machinist who made $30@hr. in 1985 is now offered $17@hr.
If you pull your head out of the sand a moment you can figure out that the cost of living has gone up 5 fold since the early 80's. In reality at $15 an hour, it's still under par. But let me guess...you have a comfy retirement from the military.

[JFN]

Originally Posted by Skuzzlebutt

I'd sure like to see the 'evidence' of this statement. And your degree in economics.

Sure, I'd like to see the lowest class improve, but at their demands, not government mandated fiat. I've owned business that paid 'minimum wage', and would have quickly gone out of business if wages doubled without adding about 1/3 to the prices. And of course, I'd need the profits on the business to increase to double my income, too. So add another 1/3 to the prices. Simple math, no economic surveys needed.

And if the worker is to be any better off, he best 'invest' a bit. But will he? Not under the all-knowing programs of the government, which keeps interest rates in the sub-1% range.

Of course, a little common sense, which seems to be lacking here would help. Good luck finding it in this forum.

My wife and I have owned a number of profitable businesses and always found that a decent living salary resulted in better productivity, loyalty and commitment on the part of the employee. Well worth the investment in the asset that were my employees because of their motivated role in the growth of the company.
Also, the "he best invest", comment - how much do you suppose is left over from that minimum wage after luxuries like food and rent whatever the interest rate. And finally, while we all appreciate the value of common sense, America's great businesses are a result of vision not arithmatic. We aren't going to agree here my friend - All the best.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Skuzzlebutt

I'd sure like to see the 'evidence' of this statement. And your degree in economics.

Sure, I'd like to see the lowest class improve, but at their demands, not government mandated fiat. I've owned business that paid 'minimum wage', and would have quickly gone out of business if wages doubled without adding about 1/3 to the prices. And of course, I'd need the profits on the business to increase to double my income, too. So add another 1/3 to the prices. Simple math, no economic surveys needed.

And if the worker is to be any better off, he best 'invest' a bit. But will he? Not under the all-knowing programs of the government, which keeps interest rates in the sub-1% range.

Of course, a little common sense, which seems to be lacking here would help. Good luck finding it in this forum.

So your argument is that you should be able to pay poverty wages so low that the government has to step in and subsidize your business via wage support (welfare, Medicaid, etc.) and without these government subsidies your business couldn't have existed?


I really wish all the 'economics' around here that argue against a minimum wage hike would actually go read something on the subject. There is such a thing called the 'velocity of money' that has been in a free fall over the last 20 years. Tax cuts for the very wealthy have a velocity of almost zero while minimum wages increases have a velocity of about 100%. Because the poor spend almost everything they make.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Hogwash!

What if you are a talented artist? or writer? That cannot find a job

.....

You made poor choices. A smart choice is to gain a skill that will be in demand. Doctor, lawyer. plumber, electrician, etc. I would think that would be pretty obvious.