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Old 15-04-2016, 11:30   #91
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...........that young (and often not all that young) people flipping hamburgers are NOT learning anything. They are just flipping hamburgers................ .
They should be learning something. They should be learning the value of an education, be it academic or trade school. They should be learning that if they had one or the other, they wouldn't be flipping burgers for a living.
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Old 15-04-2016, 11:40   #92
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

Beyond the burger flipping, many of our friends kids that have graduated College with decent degrees, are waiting tables and other normally low paying jobs.
Tradesmen with welding and machine operator / electrician etc., are having tough times finding jobs and are waiting tables.

Only job growth I have seen is for administration and I guess IT types of jobs, the days of the US being a manufacturing center are gone, leaving I guess service type of jobs?

Middle class still exists of course, just the way I see it, they have much less actual spending power than a few years ago.
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:05   #93
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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No cause or effect here - people making a living wage is good for everyone and the community - no evidence to the contrary. Even Henry Ford knew he had to pay his employees enough so they could buy his cars. Sorry for going off topic.
This is absolutely untrue. Study after study has shown government-mandated minimum wage laws result in fewer jobs thus freezing out those at the bottom of the employment market. As so much progressive legislation does, the unintended effects wind up hurting the very people it was designed to help. (And the example of Henry Ford does not apply. Ford was a free and active participant in the labor market, not someone acting as the result of government regulation.. I don't think Ford cared much about his employees--or anyone else--but he wanted to cut down on turnover, which I recall was running over 100% per year. Craftsmen simply hated working on a high speed mass production assembly line. The solution was simple: to keep 'em, pay 'em. The clever Ford framed it as a magnanimous act done out of concern for labor's welfare. Nothing could have been further from the truth).

For further information, search on YouTube for Milton Friedman minimum wage.

Paul
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:07   #94
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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We tolerate the infinite selfishness, greed and deceit of the very young only because they know no better.

We send criminals to jail for acts proceeding from the same character traits.

Anyone care to offer a coherent argument that Capitalists are less selfish, greedy or dishonest than the other two groups?
Classic use of the "I state that you beat your wife (even though you don't) so explain why it's OK to beat your wife line of questioning".

I would challenge you do offer a coherent argument that Capitalists are selfish.

The idea that you believe Capitalism s about greed and deceit tells me you have no understanding of what Capitalism is.
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:10   #95
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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If I were a business owner in the US I'd demand very much more aggressive gun control before demanding the unfettered freedom to exploit my employees in whatever bigoted, racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic manner I wished...

That's if I were, obviously. No offence meant of course
Feel free to become a businessman and offer your employees a minimum $50/hr even if they ae just flipping burgers. It's easy to take pot shots when it's no your business that would be driven to bankruptcy.
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:18   #96
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Beyond the burger flipping, many of our friends kids that have graduated College with decent degrees, are waiting tables and other normally low paying jobs.
.
I know exactly what you are saying. I have several nieces and nephews doing low end jobs even though they have a college degree. Ironically, all but one has turned down jobs in their profession because something was "wrong" with it (not high enough pay, didn't like the company, didn't want to move). The one who took a low level job in an accounting firm out of state 5-6yrs ago is doing quite well and has moved up and is back in state.

While we weren't looking, during the worst of the recent downturn, we were both offered jobs unsolicited multiple times by people we had only recently met.

I'm not buying the idea that there aren't jobs just that kids don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up.
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:19   #97
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

The most terrifying thing a businessman could ever experience would be a 'suit' walking into his business saying: "Good day sir, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!"
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:31   #98
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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They should be learning something. They should be learning the value of an education, be it academic or trade school. They should be learning that if they had one or the other, they wouldn't be flipping burgers for a living.
I actually work with indigent people, particularly juveniles. How exactly do you think they can scrape together the money for a higher education or trade school? They don't have credit. Many went to extremely substandard public schools. Mnay live in neighborhoods that are extremely heavily policed based on a "Broken Windows" theory, so many have "criminal" convictions for petty issues like trespass, possession of marijuana under 20 grams, shoplifting, throwing fruit at a stop sign or rocks the size of a quarter at the a vacant house, etc. If you think that these are not behaviors a huge percentage of "good kids" in other neighborhoods engage in, you are just wrong. Many of my juvenile clients have been diagnosed with PTSD from living in the neighborhoods they live in.

They can't get scholarships or aid. They can't get a good enough job to pay for a trade school that isn't just a cash cow for the owners (See: virtually all of them), they can't get into the military anymore now that there isn't a huge need.

It's so easy to sit somewhere and be judgmental about people who have had VASTLY different lives and experiences. Indigent people by and large are not lazy. They are stuck through a combination of forces and events that make it nearly impossible to extract yourself. Accessing any information or programs is incredibly hard because we do not have public transportation readily available, many of them do not have reliable computer access, and many of our programs have been privatized so they are not as visible to people seeking assistance.

Still, some kids do manage to claw their way out. It's a miracle and an incredible illustration of the indomitable human spirit. Does that mean that the kids who didn't are necessarily shiftless? Not at all. Most are just less lucky.

I felt compelled to write this because I run up against these kind of "bootstraps" attitudes about people I work with every day. It sickens me, to be honest. Our country is weakened every time we refuse to try and understand the struggles people deal with and the hurdles placed in their way. These people could be highly productive citizens with very little effort by our government and communities.

The successes frequently have one thing in common: they had a person or a group that took an interest in them and did not just fade away. A teacher, a neighbor, a church, a social worker, a court-appointed attorney, a boss- whatever. If you want to make any kind of difference, please consider volunteering your time and, most importantly, continuing to be there for someone who is struggling. I am sure many of you do, and I just want to say thank you for making a difference both in that individual's life,, and in the strength of out country.
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:45   #99
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Hogwash!

What if you are a talented artist? or writer? That cannot find a job

Artist's are not paid the way a low level Computer Tech is. And many tech's cannot write at all. Or play music, paint, etc

It's just the nature of the beast these days.

Try not to be so narrow minded........
We live with the outcome of our decisions. Some people major in English lit and choose to become poets. Others become petroleum engineers. One winds up washing dishes in the back of a restaurant and the other goes on to professional success and its rewards. It has always been thus.

Paul
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Old 15-04-2016, 12:50   #100
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
We live with the outcome of our decisions. Some people major in English lit and choose to become poets. Others become petroleum engineers. One winds up washing dishes in the back of a restaurant and the other goes on to professional success and its rewards. It has always been thus.

Paul
and I say "AMEN" to that.
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Old 15-04-2016, 14:18   #101
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by unclemack View Post
If I were a business owner in the US I'd demand very much more aggressive gun control before demanding the unfettered freedom to exploit my employees in whatever bigoted, racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic manner I wished...



That's if I were, obviously. No offence meant of course

We have excellent gun control here in the states. Just the other day I kept a 1" grouping at 100 yards. Not a bad day huh? (55gr 5.56 through a RRA AR15 w/16" barrel).


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Old 15-04-2016, 15:07   #102
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Kardashians vs neurosurgeons.

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:big grin: That is just too bizarre ! I wouldn't watch their show if you paid me. That someone is famous for being famous is pathetic. If half the time that is spent by people watching drivel like that and reading magazines about that stuff was spent working to improve their own lives the dole would be WAY reduced.

Reminds me of an actor that was telling me how I should vote. He has not accomplished anything in life that was hard. Didn't make it through college, had no trade skills. He was good at pretending to be someone else! And he had the audacity to think that he was qualified to think for me.

Rant over.
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Old 15-04-2016, 15:16   #103
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
I know exactly what you are saying. I have several nieces and nephews doing low end jobs even though they have a college degree. Ironically, all but one has turned down jobs in their profession because something was "wrong" with it (not high enough pay, didn't like the company, didn't want to move). The one who took a low level job in an accounting firm out of state 5-6yrs ago is doing quite well and has moved up and is back in state.

While we weren't looking, during the worst of the recent downturn, we were both offered jobs unsolicited multiple times by people we had only recently met.

I'm not buying the idea that there aren't jobs just that kids don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up.
I was talking to a guy in a small town who had two sons that had moved to the city to get jobs. I said work is hard to come by these days isn't it? He said "One has been looking for a year and doesn't have a good job yet. The other one has been working since one week after he left home and has a good job. Got offered another job just the other day. One is a better worker than the other."

Every job you do is part of your resume for the job you really want.
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Old 15-04-2016, 15:21   #104
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

One trivial piece of support for my contention, offered only because it's current and ongoing - until it safely becomes old enough news that it can be quietly forgotten.

It certainly won't dent the entrenched views of you defenders of the capitalist faith here. You might even argue that President of the World Bank is merely an honorary position and therefore this is just one man's opinion. You're welcome

I'm still hoping for something credible in the way of argument though - how about tax evasion? In favour presumably?

Given that the middle class are, together with the poor, still paying for the incompetence of bankers and governments since Reagan and Thatcher it should be surprising that they fall for the "divide & conquer" tactic of blaming and punishing the untermenschen for 2008's ongoing fiasco - but sadly it's not.



<< World Bank President Jim Yong Kim said Thursday (yesterday) he is "extremely concerned" about the widespread creation of offshore companies by wealthy people around the world to evade taxes, saying it takes large sums away from governments who need the money to fight poverty.

Kim told a news conference in Washington he was distressed by the scope of the offshore accounts as disclosed in the Panama Papers, a recent report by investigative journalists based on a massive leak of documents from the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca that for decades has helped create the companies across the globe.

"If you're taking assets out of a country, it's very damaging to fighting poverty," Kim said. "We want to track down these illicit assets."

Kim added, "Everyone of us has to tackle this issue."

He called for more transparent tax systems around the world, because, he said, "There are systems where the rich don't pay and the poor do." >>
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Old 15-04-2016, 15:22   #105
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

And to the OP and the title of this thread. You are not poor just because you don't have as much money or physical things as someone else.... Poor is not graded on a curve.
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