Now I understand how poor i am.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I'd like to meet the trooper who can put ten rounds into a one-inch circle at 500 meters with an iron-sighted M16 and standard ammo.

Paul

You might be surprised at what teenage eyes can do........along with the proper site settings, sling tension etc especially from the prone position

[a64pilot]

Thread drift
I enjoy long range shooting, have for many years.
Nobody is holding an M16 to a 1" group at 500 yds
I do not think it capable of holding 1 min of accuracy even in a bench rest.
M16 is a good rifle, but it is not known for its accuracy, especially before the A2 version


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[thomm225]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Thread drift
I enjoy long range shooting, have for many years.
Nobody is holding an M16 to a 1" group at 500 yds
I do not think it capable of holding 1 min of accuracy even in a bench rest.
M16 is a good rifle, but it is not known for its accuracy, especially before the A2 version

Some guy brought it up earlier and I just threw it out there in response to his gun talk (from 100 yards) mainly to demonstrate the great distances our teenage marines are expected to be able to kill people from

In actuality, all your basic teenage Marine has to do is hit the guy (a silhouette target) from 500 yards which is still pretty good shooting especially if the winds are up and oscillating.

For a guy (person) that may never have shoot a rifle just a few weeks before, that ain't bad

https://www.google.com/search?q=mari...XK1FGZSZCNM%3A

Looks like they are using some sort of small scope these days. We didn't have that in the 70's.

http://recruitparents.com/bootcamp/s...-positions.asp

[a64pilot]

I qualified too, Army qualifies out to 300 yds only though and we qualified with silhouette drop down targets only, no Bulls eye and no target marking, you didn't know if you hit center of mass or just grazed the edge.
The Rangers stationed at Ft Stewart all go to PI to use the Marine ranges due to the longer ranges.

The A1 M-16 had I think a 1 in 12 barrel twist and fired a 55 gr projectile, so it tumbled at any opportunity as it was barely stabilized, this meant long range accuracy suffered, but it was a much more effective round at shorter range.
Later M-16's have a barrel twist rate of 1 in 7 I believe and fire a much heavier projectile, 65 gr I think, the heavier projectiles are intended to help defeat body armor, but there is only so much you can do with a .223 round.

When I went onto the sand box, I had a Leopold Vari-XII 2.5 to 8 power scope and mount on a CAR 15 and I could hold maybe a 6" group at 200 yds but I believe that to be as good as you can get with an M-16, they just aren't precision rifles, they are lightyears ahead of a AK-47 though

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I struggle with the term" working poor". Often its by choice.

Yes to be one of the working poor or minimum wage earner it is often by choice, if you very broadly define the meaning of choice. However remember that the median IQ in the US is about 100. That means that half the people in this country have an IQ below 100, many well below.

This results in a significant number of people that just don't have the mental capacity to do much more than a minimum wage job, no matter how motivated and hard working.

[a64pilot]

It's 98, I think, but I do concede your point. Interesting on how much variation there is.

List of Average IQ By Country and American States | BrandonGaille.com

[Paul J. Nolan]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Some guy brought it up earlier and I just threw it out there in response...

A sad and shameful admission, though I doubt the poster is even aware of his humiliation.

Paul

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

A sad and shameful admission, though I doubt the poster is even aware of his humiliation.

Paul

Not sad and shameful at all.

And he's aware of it. He said he had been in the navy and already understood the two weeks of initial shooting training Marines get.

I'm talking what I remember from the 70's. I haven't fired a rifle since 1979. No need.

I didn't get as much training in shooting as the regular infantry 0300 grunts did because I was an Air Traffic Control Radar Tech ......Radar/IFF (PAR and ASR). Marine Tech's go to Navy Tech Schools after basic not to a real Marine Infantry Base

My unit was a quick setup/deployable air traffic control facility. We even knew surveying so we could set up our offset touchdown reflectors/ centerline reflectors PAR Radar offset position after the runway was built

Yes, the Marines have their own Air Force because I reckon the real Air Force wasn't given them close enough Close Air Support so they got a few bucks from the government for their own. At least, that's what we were told.

[amytom]

Didn't really think it was shame. At least I'm out there giving it a shot (full pun intended). The real point I was making was that quite a few Americans are pretty good at gun control.
As for comparing squids to jarheads a .45 is much more appropriate on ship than an m14 or m16.
And back in the day I did qualify with the m14 and qualified expert with the 1911. Lately I've been concentrating on the private pilots license and working. (How many "poor" Americans am I feeding?)
If any rifle instructors out there want to volunteer some time I'll by the beer (afterwards) and promise to pass it forward to the next generation.


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[Paul J. Nolan]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Not sad and shameful at all.

Yes, it is. You were making stuff up, asserting it as fact, were challenged, and admitted it. Do yourself a favor and stop talking.

Paul

[SV THIRD DAY]

Come on Paul...personal type attacks will get the thread shut down and deleted and then where will be able to poke fun at the Bernie Sanders supporters?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

Yes, it is. You were making stuff up, asserting it as fact, were challenged, and admitted it. Do yourself a favor and stop talking.

Paul

Hey Little Man Paul,

Chill out. I'm not making stuff up. I wasn't challenged at all so please stop your crying

This guy doesn't look like much of a threat but give him a box of M16 rounds and a target at 500 yards or closer and he is very dangerous. (shot 218 in boot camp)

Later, he went to college and after getting sick of math and engineering since he had enough from the marine training (2 separate years, 8 hours per day math and electronics, I was very lucky how much the government used to spend on techs in the years during and after Vietnam) I majored in the liberal arts where I actually received an education not some simple job skill in order to make a lot of money

Then I had an artist son.

You though could never be an artist. You know how I know that right? Can your brain deal with such a simple question?

I hope you are under 30 years old and have some time to figure things out. Good luck with that.

Btw, if you are an American you paid for my college education so thank you. Before that I was your basic rural redneck. (that could shoot, run etc)

Btw, in the marines we learn honor. We only cheat to help the dumber guys in the platoon to pass their tests.

Tom

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Come on Paul...personal type attacks will get the thread shut down and deleted and then where will be able to poke fun at the Bernie Sanders supporters?

I should have figured you and Little Man Paul were buddies. But looks like you are a paying customer so no problem right? Anything you say is gospel

Some of us work our way up from the very bottom of society.....

and yes, it's much easier for we engineering types than for an artist

That Little Man Paul though is one tough sob behind his keyboard. Be careful dealing with him.

[spraygun]

Well.....It's been fun....But I think we have reached the end of this one.

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[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I should have figured you and Little Man Paul were buddies. But looks like you are a paying customer so no problem right? Anything you say is gospel

Some of us work our way up from the very bottom of society.....

and yes, it's much easier for we engineering types than for an artist

That Little Man Paul though is one tough sob behind his keyboard. Be careful dealing with him.

Bro...you need to re-read and put the chip down...
I was politely calling Paul out for being nasty to you for the name calling.

Somehow, you then lump a guy defending YOU in with a guy calling you names...whooaaaa amigo........someone needs some chill time...

No apology is necessary of course, you earned a mulligan with your service to our Country, for which we thank you sincerely.