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Old 18-04-2016, 11:38   #136
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by unclemack View Post
So the only "politics" here is in the posts you just deleted????
No, but the one was well over the line.

Honestly it's like the Supreme Judges quote on Pornography, really tough to define, but you know it when you see it?
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Old 18-04-2016, 12:04   #137
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Without the evil 1% the dead Artist has no patrons.

Fixed it for you

Your argument relies on a definition of Art so narrow as to be laughable.

Interesting how apologists for the super-rich think that bottom-of-the-barrel-scraping argument like this will go unchallenged.

Deluded enough to believe themselves the smartest in the room perhaps?
So share at time when there was a significant market for artists making a good living without the evil 1%.

Can't do it can you?
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Old 18-04-2016, 12:04   #138
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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No, but the one was well over the line.

Honestly it's like the Supreme Judges quote on Pornography, really tough to define, but you know it when you see it?
Yeah, poor judgement on my part.

Apologies to all, especially SV THIRD DAY.
Tried a lot of official badges that just wouldn't load, got impatient and that was the second one that worked.
First one failed the profanity test by quite some margin
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Old 18-04-2016, 12:10   #139
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

No harm no foul.
Its going to be tough I believe to keep Politics out of the Forum with the upcoming US election.
But Politics and Religion and a few other topics often add little, yet inflame emotions.
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Old 18-04-2016, 12:54   #140
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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So share at time when there was a significant market for artists making a good living without the evil 1%.

Can't do it can you?
As I posted earlier, what you do for a living is related to it's value to people willing to pay for it. We pay our doctors well because without them we would be sick or dead. We pay our plumbers well because we don't want poop piling up in the bathroom.

"Artists" (artists, musicians, poets, etc.) are paid out our discretionary funds (money left over after food, medicine and housing).

Understanding this, among artists, they generally get paid according to their talents. A better artist or musician will earn more than a poor one. As a former professional musician, I know that some people who think they are musicians are in fact not and deserve little or nothing in pay.

And that's as it should be.
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Old 18-04-2016, 13:07   #141
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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As I posted earlier, what you do for a living is related to it's value to people willing to pay for it. We pay our doctors well because without them we would be sick or dead. We pay our plumbers well because we don't want poop piling up in the bathroom.

"Artists" (artists, musicians, poets, etc.) are paid out our discretionary funds (money left over after food, medicine and housing).

Understanding this, among artists, they generally get paid according to their talents. A better artist or musician will earn more than a poor one. As a former professional musician, I know that some people who think they are musicians are in fact not and deserve little or nothing in pay.

And that's as it should be.
Agreed and who has the most discretionary funds...yep those who make a lot of money.
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Old 18-04-2016, 13:30   #142
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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So share at time when there was a significant market for artists making a good living without the evil 1%.

Can't do it can you?
Yes I can. Today.

Ever bought a poster or a print? Or a book? Maybe you once bought a record?

Maybe you'd like to exclude these examples and everything before and since the Renaissance from your definition of art if they don't suit your case?

Or maybe you'd wish to include churches, mosques, temples etc. in your definition of the evil 1%?

Your arguments fail on so many levels.
You attempt to duck the issue of massively increasing inequality with these diversions.


Oxfam (damn bleeding heart liberals, obviously) state that half of global wealth is held by the 1%.

New Oxfam report says half of global wealth held by the 1% | Business | The Guardian

I quoted the president of the world bank earlier in this thread concerning tax evasion and offshore banks.
The causes of increasing inequality are disputed but the phenomenon itself is not.
Much of the 1% prefers to pay NO tax and can afford to make it happen.
The rest pay the best bean counters to find loopholes and avoid as much as possible.

If you believe that the poor pick up the tab for that then you're deluded.
The middle class pick up the tab for the super rich and for the poor.

Go back to the first post here and many others that show that the middle class are poorer now than they were in our youth.
If you personally are not - it's irrelevant to the argument.

I'm much wealthier now than I was but I don't base my opinions on anecdotal evidence or perceived personal interest.

That's not how critical thinking is done.






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Old 18-04-2016, 15:38   #143
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
As I posted earlier, what you do for a living is related to it's value to people willing to pay for it. We pay our doctors well because without them we would be sick or dead. We pay our plumbers well because we don't want poop piling up in the bathroom.

"Artists" (artists, musicians, poets, etc.) are paid out our discretionary funds (money left over after food, medicine and housing).

Understanding this, among artists, they generally get paid according to their talents. A better artist or musician will earn more than a poor one. As a former professional musician, I know that some people who think they are musicians are in fact not and deserve little or nothing in pay.

And that's as it should be.
I take it you are not familiar with Van Gough's history. Or Herman Melville's for that matter.
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Old 18-04-2016, 16:08   #144
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Again, the "working poor" are poor because that's all their skills are worth. If they are working at a fast food restaurant it's because they don't know how to do anything that will bring a higher wage. Again, this is their choice.

Explain to the class where this $15 or more per hour is going to come from?
Won't you please stop with your politics!
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Old 18-04-2016, 16:39   #145
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Won't you please stop with your politics!
What Politics?
So now economic discussion can't be had because it offends, like politics and religion?

Since when did a basic discussion of Economics become taboo and political?
Have we fallen so much that people can't stand to see a point of view that they disagree with? Do we need a trigger warning and safe spaces on Cruiser Forum now?

Come one...I LOVE seeing views I disagree with, they make me think and besides, people like me are boring....
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Old 18-04-2016, 16:55   #146
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

I struggle with the term" working poor". Often its by choice. I employ 16 people, most casually. Ive given many opportunities over the years for a number of them to step up, but they don't, they will complain that they need more money though. A young guy started 2.5 years ago, he always went the extra mile, volunteered for everything and never said no, he is now manager and has doubled his wage, he grosses close to 90k/ year aged 22 and just purchased is owe house. He also chooses to rent 3 of the rooms out which covers the morgage and puts a dollar in his pocket. BTW his later teenage years were spent in.a caravan and his parents are on social security.
I myself left school at 15 , became a motor mechanic. Realized it didnt pay and searched for a better way to get ahead. I stopped working at 38, not rich but enough coming in not to be in the business. BTW my boat is 32 years old, I own no car and choose not to have children.
Not all ,BUT alot of "working poor" just make bad choices, to many kids, to bigger house, to nicer a car and to many starbucks coffees!


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Old 18-04-2016, 17:54   #147
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
As I posted earlier, what you do for a living is related to it's value to people willing to pay for it. We pay our doctors well because without them we would be sick or dead. We pay our plumbers well because we don't want poop piling up in the bathroom.

"Artists" (artists, musicians, poets, etc.) are paid out our discretionary funds (money left over after food, medicine and housing).


Understanding this, among artists, they generally get paid according to their talents. A better artist or musician will earn more than a poor one. As a former professional musician, I know that some people who think they are musicians are in fact not and deserve little or nothing in pay.

And that's as it should be.
You forgot that which takes most money from our pockets . . . TAXES . . . but they are necessary to pay for the things we need to survive as a community such as roads, education, law enforcement, and other conveniences etc.
As for music as an art form, yes there are all types of music, some I love, others I hate with a passion ie: the type most often seen: Guitarists in ragged clothing, throwing themselves all over the stage, screaming into a mic like they're in severe pain and need to be put out of their misery. Strangely, this kind often become multi millionaires, because the young folk buy their CD's but, as far as I'm concerned, they have no talent, cannot sing, and are not entertaining in my books. They're just noisy buggers whom I'm pleased to have the means to switch off.
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Old 18-04-2016, 17:56   #148
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

Americans Spend More on Taxes Than on Food, Clothing and Shelter | The Fiscal Times

The socialist gig is about up folks. Like it our not we be out of money and the printing press game is over.

Is that the Country our ancestors fought, bleed and died for?
One that the Government takes more than you get for yourself?

It doesn't matter if you like or hate Big Government...it is broke and the system will collapse under the weight of the promises and lies. Take all the evil 1%-ers money, cut the military spending to zero..and the Country is still broke and can't pay the promises.

Plan accordingly...or face the consequences because $15/hr or $20/hr minimum wage is just a smoke screen for the real issues....that no one wants to talk about, but everyone knows in their gut are real.
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Old 18-04-2016, 18:02   #149
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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I struggle with the term" working poor". Often its by choice. I employ 16 people, most casually. Ive given many opportunities over the years for a number of them to step up, but they don't, they will complain that they need more money though. A young guy started 2.5 years ago, he always went the extra mile, volunteered for everything and never said no, he is now manager and has doubled his wage, he grosses close to 90k/ year aged 22 and just purchased is owe house. He also chooses to rent 3 of the rooms out which covers the morgage and puts a dollar in his pocket. BTW his later teenage years were spent in.a caravan and his parents are on social security.
I myself left school at 15 , became a motor mechanic. Realized it didnt pay and searched for a better way to get ahead. I stopped working at 38, not rich but enough coming in not to be in the business. BTW my boat is 32 years old, I own no car and choose not to have children.
Not all ,BUT alot of "working poor" just make bad choices, to many kids, to bigger house, to nicer a car and to many starbucks coffees!


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Some folks don't seem to understand that we are not all wired the same.

I actually play chess for fun which means I'm pretty sharp with numbers/logic

Others think that's totally ridiculous and it probably is.

Artists are simply wired differently

We jackass engineer types actually not just see every tree we think we have to examine each one

Artists see the entire forest..................and don't get all caught up in the small details

When we raced, I was concerned about every single detail on the race course and the boat, whereas my son the artist could care less, but he could call crucial tacks that won us several races because his view was of the entire race course. He was especially effective with shifting winds

He was 12-15 at the time and I would go with his calls. Once after he called a tack that won us a race on the last leg, I looked over at this kid with a month full of braces and "sagging pants" trying to figure him out
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Old 18-04-2016, 18:24   #150
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Re: Now I understand how poor i am.

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Some folks don't seem to understand that we are not all wired the same.

I actually play chess for fun which means I'm pretty sharp with numbers/logic

Others think that's totally ridiculous and it probably is.

Artists are simply wired differently

We jackass engineer types actually not just see every tree we thing we have to examine the thing

Artists see the entire forest..................
I'd prefer you don't assume you know what I do and don't understand. Maybe " some folk do understand" people are wired differently. I dont look like a supermodel, so I don't expect to get payed as one. Im aware of my strengths and weaknesses and plan accordingly. I could not be an IT person and sit all day typing code, regardless of how much it payed. Reality is reality and a good poet can believe he's undervalued all he wants but it doesn't change the facts, so I suggest he finds away of making money from his passion (as I did) or he looks at other paths.
People need to move on from this romatic view of fairness.

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