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Old 14-05-2010, 00:56   #31
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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
And as far as Neptune's Court goes... obviously I picked him for reasons other than his sailing prowess... His skills in other areas more than make up for the dearth in this one. I am just viewing it as a bonus that he really wants to do something I love!
Many, many of us are in the same situation. What we won't do to get the Other onto the water so that we can enjoy it together. It's a real cosmic life problem when one half of a couple loves the water and the other doesn't.

Mine is not a weenie (and I'm sorry yours is; men should not be that way IMHO). On the contrary, when I got her out in a good blow and huge waves in the Bequia Channel on a rented catamaran one time some years ago, she put on her bikini and revelled in it. She said -- "now I see why you like this so much." I on the other hand was scared shirtless, because I was driving a cat for the first time and was afraid to flip it over. But she is largely indifferent to it and it is hard to get her out. I am going to extreme lengths, including risking the laughter and derision of every sailor in sight by putting in a salt-water hot tub.

Like I said -- what we won't do! Good luck!
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Old 14-05-2010, 05:39   #32
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This guy has jumped out of perfectly good airplanes and he's nervous about sailing? That's just crazy.

I think racing is the way to go. So far, I've raced 3 times in pretty snotty conditions. If you can do that, then you can easily learn to merely "survive" in the same conditions and it's not nearly as frightening.

2 months ago, 25kts of wind in my boat would put me in the fetal position, sucking my thumb on the cockpit sole. Now that I understand which sails to use, and the proper way to employ them, it's just "meh". Hell, I singlehand in that.

Racing builds confidence, especially if you move up from "railmeat" to more engaging positions where you can observe the results of your contribution.
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Old 14-05-2010, 06:10   #33
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Sara,

I've got my fingers crossed for you 2. It's obvious the man is willing to test the fires. You just got to love, admire, and encourage him to death for doing what he's doing no matter for what reason. You have to admire a person willing to face thier fears face to face..........i2f
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Old 14-05-2010, 08:08   #34
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Two words, "warm water"

Makes all the difference when learning to sail, especially a dingy or the like.....first thing to do is tip the boat over, find the edges.
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Old 14-05-2010, 09:13   #35
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Another notable piece of racing slang is "boat slut." This connotes someone who moves from crew to crew on a week-to-week basis.
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no. "rail meat" is just part of racing slang. "Rail meat" connotes a crew member who doesn't have a function--unlike a trimmer, for example--other than to sit on the rail and attempt to keep the boat flat.
I know what rail meat is, just didn't know why rebel was laffin ; -) and I think the boat slut would be a good role for him. But you know how it goes... havin brunch and he finds the race director and explains he wants to go out but isn't very experienced so he doesn't know how much help he would be and the guy sittin at the bar says 'hey come sail with me, glad to have you aboard' and there ya go, a done deal. don't know how hard it would be to back out of that after 3 weeks and go in a new direction. shouldn't be too hard. hmmm... got me thinkin... maybe a word with the director and see if he can assist in the transfer...

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If you were the one who schooled him in Lasers then IMHO he needs to do it again with a 3rd party. It also sounds like "dumping it" happened once. Learning from a sailing instructor in dinghys requires multiple capsizes and rightings. It's about learning how to right the boat and also finding its limits. BTW we often "dump it" on purpose.

He has been an adventurer in the past so my humble opinion is about making him understand that a catalina 27 is really not that much of an adventure (no offense).

Long story short and reading between the lines is that there is something else going on. He is trying like heck by doing the beer can stuff even if it does make him uncomfortable. udos to him.

Not to get too sensitive but have you examined how you and he interact on the boat in terms of command and decision making? Maybe he is feeling out of control and not part of the decision team?
I was not the instructor on the lazer, just another student. and he *knows* in his brain that the dump was no big deal, but in his gut he has a different truth I guess...

He even knows in his brain that our Cal is, for our purposes, bomb proof. The kind of conditions that would be risky in our two ton tomato we would never be out in. but again his gut tells him something different.

I think there may be something going on subconsciously, but have no idea what it is and don't think he does either...

On the boat he mostly leaves me to make the decisions, after we discuss, until he gets anxious. then it gets complicated.

Whats weird is that when we have got the sails up and the wind fillin em and the boat has come to life he loves it... but it seems like every time he forgets and we are back at square one. I feel really bad for him. Thats why we are hopin the time racing will get that solid feeling set in his gut, so he doesn't regress.

Thinkin this all thru... we haven't got a sailing dingy and don't have access to one. Doubt he would go out alone anyway... swappin to a boat slut role might make this more productive a learning experience for him. gonna see about that on sunday.

I plan to be absent on tuesdays still so its just him doin his thang.

We have another twist I just thought about... the friend who has been takin him out and teaching him and the harbour master and one of the racing guys took him over to another dock last week and showed him a little ranger 23, told him the owner is looking for a good home for it and that the rigging and sails are all in super shape and other than dirt she is good to go and a sweet easy sailor. Basically for takin over the slip fees we could, in all likelihood, have her. Is this an idea I should figure out how to pay for? Would it be a better learner than our Cal 28? ( which is not a Catalina; the Cal is an old racer/cruiser- vintage 1967)
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Old 14-05-2010, 09:33   #36
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Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter View Post
So, when anxious, remember to breathe.
Also, when not anxious.

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Two words, "warm water"

Makes all the difference when learning to sail, especially a dingy or the like.....first thing to do is tip the boat over, find the edges.
2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th this! We got flipped - twice - by a storm the FIRST time J took me sailing in a dinghy. But dumped into 85 degree Florida water isn't so bad. Just laughed it off and flopped back in.
Getting only-partially dunked in April in Lake Michigan was a lot worse!
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Old 14-05-2010, 18:01   #37
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Mine is not a weenie if it's roller coasters or parachuting, but when it comes to wave action and wind on a boat it's all different for her...go figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Many, many of us are in the same situation. What we won't do to get the Other onto the water so that we can enjoy it together. It's a real cosmic life problem when one half of a couple loves the water and the other doesn't.

Mine is not a weenie (and I'm sorry yours is; men should not be that way IMHO). On the contrary, when I got her out in a good blow and huge waves in the Bequia Channel on a rented catamaran one time some years ago, she put on her bikini and revelled in it. She said -- "now I see why you like this so much." I on the other hand was scared shirtless, because I was driving a cat for the first time and was afraid to flip it over. But she is largely indifferent to it and it is hard to get her out. I am going to extreme lengths, including risking the laughter and derision of every sailor in sight by putting in a salt-water hot tub.

Like I said -- what we won't do! Good luck!
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Old 15-05-2010, 13:12   #38
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I think there may be something going on subconsciously, but have no idea what it is and don't think he does either...
Blokes are less able to take on blind faith things outside their direct control. Hunter, Gatherer stuff - some things brain can't override on demand On a boat in the windy / bumpy stuff not too far from the primeval swamp stuff

I think the issue is that he doesn't feel comfortable with his level of knowing WTF is going on and why. and not being able to understand the risks sufficiently for his comfort. Not the same as needing to fully understand everything (let alone be personally able). More like being comfortable sitting in the back of a Jumbo Jet - most of us don't know how to fly them (nor wish to!) but have learnt enough (albeit to varying degrees!) understanding of how the flying thing works to be comfortable with the process and with the pilot of a jumbo jet - without simply relying on blind faith.

I see his list of past sports / hobbies indicates he likes things which have risks over which he has become comfortable from being the person in control. Am definately not saying it's about him wanting (or needing) to be the one in control onboard, but it is the way he has learnt to understand and accept risk in the past............therefore I would seek to use this.

You beat me to the idea of a small boat (presuming it is not dinghy style capzisable - he's 62, old enough to have developed sufficient sense not to spend his days getting dunked. for fun )........but the key I think is that it be his boat to captain to develop an understanding (at his own pace) about what being in control is about on a boat (and that includes the freedom - and privacy! - to learn from his mistakes).........not to say you can't sail with him at times (your boat / his boat), or even in tandem with your boat.

The point of all this is not to train him to your level, but to get him to the point of him sufficiently understanding why he has confidence in you. your boat. and your decisions...............and why he is very happy you are the captain .




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Old 15-05-2010, 15:16   #39
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Mine is not a weenie if it's roller coasters or parachuting, but when it comes to wave action and wind on a boat it's all different for her...go figure.
Try as I might, I can't understand that. I have also jumped out of a perfectly good airplane, and that is flipping terrifying. That goes against every instinct programmed into a human being. How one can deal with that, but be afraid just plain sailing, is beyond my comprehension.
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Old 15-05-2010, 16:35   #40
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How about sticking with the racing small boats but racing against people of a similar level? Doing this with some tubby little 14' keel boats with J was probably some of the best sailing she's done, including blanketing their sails with our nose so close to their backside that *I* was the one ready to back off to pip them past the finish line

If our opponents had any kind of sailing knowledge the simple fun of getting sails trimmed and "but why are they going faster" wouldn't have been fun at all.

The best bit was when their boom came off, and J got me alongside so I could step on board and repair, and then managed to sail away and come back alongside so I could get back on the right boat....
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Old 15-05-2010, 23:14   #41
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The point of all this is not to train him to your level, but to get him to the point of him sufficiently understanding why he has confidence in you. your boat. and your decisions...............and why he is very happy you are the captain .
I agree with you.
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Old 15-05-2010, 23:19   #42
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Try as I might, I can't understand that. I have also jumped out of a perfectly good airplane, and that is flipping terrifying. That goes against every instinct programmed into a human being. How one can deal with that, but be afraid just plain sailing, is beyond my comprehension.
I know she's not nearly at home in or on the water as I am, so she might be afraid of drowning. I know when the boat heels to much, she starts getting a little white knuckled.
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