New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

What you do gain are the principles that can be applied to similar problems, principles that can be used to creatively solve unique problems in new ways.

Very well put.

For example: No two dockings are identical.

[a64pilot]

Way experience usually goes with technical things that may be unsafe is, right out of training your pretty safe, you follow the rules, use checklists and don't push the envelope.

Then at some point you begin to think of yourself as seasoned, you know what your doing, that weather, well used to be I wouldn't go out, but know that I know what I'm doing I can handle it.

Then you have something that happens and you either don't survive it, or it scares the stew out of you and you learn that you really don't know squat after all and you begin to go back to using check lists, following the rules and have a new found fear of the weather.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Experience is not linear. The amount you gain the the first 1,000 miles is not the same as the experience gained in the 200,000 to 201,000 miles. A kind of logarithmic levelling occurs over time, where experience become less and less meaningful.

The other point is that the majority of problems you encounter are not repeatable within the same context and are not solvable just through route learning and techniques. What you do gain are the principles that can be applied to similar problems, principles that can be used to creatively solve unique problems in new ways.

The hardest part isn't in the learning or experience, it's in the acclimation to a new lifestyle and a new way of thinking and experiencing. Making the transition from one kind of world to another is where people break down.

I know people with 30 years experience whose knowledge and skill intake has been exponential. I know others with 30 years that is really just 1 years experience repeated 30 times.

The more courses I take, the more experience I gain .... the more I realize how little I know.

[Hudson Force]

It's been my experience that, with many years of living aboard and many thousands of cruising miles, something will surprise me and I can make a mistake at any time.

Today was a perfect example. I cut a two square foot surface plate from my deck and cleaned out a soft spot where I then arranged an array of new coring tiles in a bed of fresh poured epoxy to seat them in position and seal the open area before this afternoon's rain,- expecting to begin refinishing the deck surface tomorrow. I temporarily taped the cover plate on top and went below where I noticed a forgotten access plate just a few inches aft of my work.

Sure enough, there was a fine drool of epoxy coating some leaves of a potted plant and some of Nancie's decorative glassware! What a mess! .... but a reminder for me that I can overlook something simple at any time. This one wasn't a danger, but I could do something dangerous too! .....anytime.

I think much of the good that comes with the experience is how you respond to the discovery of your mistakes. Will you see to the safety of the crew first? Will you know the priority of the best actions? Can you work calmly and efficiently toward resolving the problem?

Unlike "Captain Ron's" claim, It will happen and not necessarily out there. ....anyplace,... anytime.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I can't make sense of these numbers.
Average house sells for more than $389,000.
>60% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings?

They don't add up, or do only a small percentage "own" their home?

Of course it doesn't add up...
That is why the American people, like the Government, are in debt up to their eyeballs. We may not want to admit it to ourselves, but this is why the majority of Americans view us cruisers as being part of the rich 1%-ers...well...because when you don't even have $1000 in your bank account we are! Remember that when the issue of "taxing the evil rich" comes up because friends...if you have enough money to go cruising, you have a "I'm rich" target on your back.

[Cruisingscotts]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Way experience usually goes with technical things that may be unsafe is, right out of training your pretty safe, you follow the rules, use checklists and don't push the envelope.

Then at some point you begin to think of yourself as seasoned, you know what your doing, that weather, well used to be I wouldn't go out, but know that I know what I'm doing I can handle it.

Then you have something that happens and you either don't survive it, or it scares the stew out of you and you learn that you really don't know squat after all and you begin to go back to using check lists, following the rules and have a new found fear of the weather.

I took a Ammonia refrigeration course in Garden City Kansas and the school owner has a great quote in the beginning of there text.

Everyone starts out their carear with two bags one full of luck and a empty one for expieriance. Everytime something bad happens you take some of the luck and move it over. You hope you make it through before the luck one is empty.

The obvious alternative being training.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Of course it doesn't add up...
That is why the American people, like the Government, are in debt up to their eyeballs. We may not want to admit it to ourselves, but this is why the majority of Americans view us cruisers as being part of the rich 1%-ers...well...because when you don't even have $1000 in your bank account we are! Remember that when the issue of "taxing the evil rich" comes up because friends...if you have enough money to go cruising, you have a "I'm rich" target on your back.

"Rich" is a relative term. I am the richest person I know .... and that's before looking at my balance sheet. Thank you Sharon

[zedpassway]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Outboards don't die from ethanol poising, people do.

Sounds like you guys didn't have enough "experience" with outboards, lawnmower engines etc

It's the strangest thing to blame ethanol in gasoline for engine problems since the engines were built to run on it

So does that make you an inexperience sailor, or inexperienced mechanic, or both?
r

I'm afraid that on this point you are just wrong. I have numerous friend who outboards that were designed to run on ethanol broke down, refused to start, got damaged, on ethanol gas. In my case I had no idea what was wrong, but to the tune of $150 my Honda mechanic confirmed that it was ethanol in the gas which collected too much water and clogged up the jets with that and with goo that the ethanol solvent damaged. An outboard is not a closed system like a car, and in a ocean environment the gas collects water like its a sponge. When I bought the new Tohatsu, my dealer immediate recommended ethanol free gas if I wanted it to run right.

If it never happened to you in a more recent OB, you are lucky. changes by the EPA have made the carb jets much smaller in the more recent models and thus in environments where moisture is everywhere, the machines are often unreliable. This past winter I purchased a new snowblower, and was told immediately that I could expect serious issues the second year after the ethanol sits in the machine for a year. They gave me all kinds of additives, but when I told them I only run ethanol free, they said everything would be find and it would run fine forever.

Just a tiny little bit of research on this topic on google will tell you how bad it is. If the engines were designed to run on it, then why does the FAA forbid the use of ethanol in gas for airplanes?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by zedpassway

I'm afraid that on this point you are just wrong. I have numerous friend who outboards that were designed to run on ethanol broke down, refused to start, got damaged, on ethanol gas. In my case I had no idea what was wrong, but to the tune of $150 my Honda mechanic confirmed that it was ethanol in the gas which collected too much water and clogged up the jets with that and with goo that the ethanol solvent damaged. An outboard is not a closed system like a car, and in a ocean environment the gas collects water like its a sponge. When I bought the new Tohatsu, my dealer immediate recommended ethanol free gas if I wanted it to run right.

If it never happened to you in a more recent OB, you are lucky. changes by the EPA have made the carb jets much smaller in the more recent models and thus in environments where moisture is everywhere, the machines are often unreliable. This past winter I purchased a new snowblower, and was told immediately that I could expect serious issues the second year after the ethanol sits in the machine for a year. They gave me all kinds of additives, but when I told them I only run ethanol free, they said everything would be find and it would run fine forever.

Just a tiny little bit of research on this topic on google will tell you how bad it is. If the engines were designed to run on it, then why does the FAA forbid the use of ethanol in gas for airplanes?

I've had no problems with my 2011 Mercury 4 Stroke 5 HP Outboard. It's the main engine on my ($2,000) sailboat. It uses 10% ethanol. I have yet to replace the spark plug.

But I am an experienced sailor/boater that takes the usual precautions. (stabil) I also start it at least once every 2-3 weeks year round.

I look at it like everything else on a boat that could strand you.

You have to keep your equipment in good shape. I gained the experience as a teenager being stuck out in the bay and also on the Seaside when my old outboards wouldn't start

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I've had no problems with my 2011 Mercury 4 Stroke 5 HP Outboard. It's the main engine on my ($2,000) sailboat. It uses 10% ethanol. I have yet to replace the spark plug.

But I am an experienced sailor/boater that takes the usual precautions. (stabil) I also start it at least once every 2-3 weeks year round.

I look at it like everything else on a boat that could strand you.

You have to keep your equipment in good shape. I gained the experience as a teenager being stuck out in the bay and also on the Seaside when my old outboards wouldn't start

I'm not a scientist but I don't believe that Stabil deters the hygroscopic effect of ethanol in fuel. It's also true that ethanol is a strong solvent that can adversely affect older hoses & fiberglass fuel tanks. Stabil is an additive that keeps gas from deteriorating which it does fairly rapidly. You would be wise to consider using non-ethanol fuel whenever possible. It's also a good idea to run the carbs dry or drain them before long layups.

Boat US has been fighting the addition of ethanol in marine fuels & is also fighting the mandated increase to 20%. Adding ethanol to gas in order to make us less reliant on fuel from the Middle East is an outdated policy that is only still in place due to corporate lobbyists & the fact that members of Congress are for sale to the highest bidder.

Now how's that for thread drift?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

I'm not a scientist but I don't believe that Stabil deters the hygroscopic effect of ethanol in fuel. It's also true that ethanol is a strong solvent that can adversely affect older hoses & fiberglass fuel tanks. Stabil is an additive that keeps gas from deteriorating which it does fairly rapidly. You would be wise to consider using non-ethanol fuel whenever possible. It's also a good idea to run the carbs dry or drain them before long layups.

Boat US has been fighting the addition of ethanol in marine fuels & is also fighting the mandated increase to 20%. Adding ethanol to gas in order to make us less reliant on fuel from the Middle East is an outdated policy that is only still in place due to corporate lobbyists & the fact that members of Congress are for sale to the highest bidder.

Now how's that for thread drift?

I've had the outboard above for 5 years. I add stabil to the 10% ethanol fuel when I know it will be sitting in the tank for 6 months or more over the Winter.

So far, no problems. The only other thing I have done to the engine is change the oils and the impeller once.

Many times I use the engine to get me back across the Chesapeake Bay, 20 miles, if I have to get back and the wind is light

I also use 10% ethanol in all my cars/Jeeps without problems also

[zedpassway]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I've had no problems with my 2011 Mercury 4 Stroke 5 HP Outboard. It's the main engine on my ($2,000) sailboat. It uses 10% ethanol. I have yet to replace the spark plug.

But I am an experienced sailor/boater that takes the usual precautions. (stabil) I also start it at least once every 2-3 weeks year round.

I look at it like everything else on a boat that could strand you.

You have to keep your equipment in good shape. I gained the experience as a teenager being stuck out in the bay and also on the Seaside when my old outboards wouldn't start

When we were picked up by the USCG, they were complaining that they were on only one of their 150 HP engines. The other one was down for service due to ethanol damage. They were complaining that they were not permitted to use ethanol free gas. If the USCG has the same problem and presumably they do maintenance as well as anyone, then you have been lucky.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by zedpassway

When we were picked up by the USCG, they were complaining that they were on only one of their 150 HP engines. The other one was down for service due to ethanol damage. They were complaining that they were not permitted to use ethanol free gas. If the USCG has the same problem and presumably they do maintenance as well as anyone, then you have been lucky.

Of course they were complaining, most of them came from small towns and believe all the BS about ethanol gas

I know the drill since I was one of them but in another branch of the military............

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Of course they were complaining, most of them came from small towns and believe all the BS about ethanol gas

I know the drill since I was one of them but in another branch of the military............

What an astonishing display of confused illlogic.
A profound non-sequitor at best

[zedpassway]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Of course they were complaining, most of them came from small towns and believe all the BS about ethanol gas .

I tend to believe it too since it actually happened to me, just like it happened to them. And it actually happened to several friends who had to have 15+HP engines replaced that were supposed to be able to run on Ethanol gas but could not.

People tend to believe things that happen to them over people telling them that its not true, especially by people who were not there.

Go figure!