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Old 15-07-2016, 06:49   #76
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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I think that is a totally different scenario than "I have never been on a boat and want to know what boat I should pick to sail around the world."
No need to "think." It IS totally different!

Whole lot of apples and oranges comparisons going on around here. But then, it's the internet, so what do you expect?
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Old 15-07-2016, 06:56   #77
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

How to be a Troll
1. Most importantly, your sailing goal should be somewhere between impossible and borderline ludicrous so those reading your post are able to take sides.

2. You should have no sailing experience.

3. Make sure you include extraneous information about your life, family, friends, or personal struggles. It humanizes your post and the responders who believe you will be more likely to attack the non-believers (your ultimate goal, right?).

4. Make sure you plan to include young children. This way, one side will accuse you of endangering them and the other will cheer you for enriching their lives.

5. It helps to be a veteran, as those who question you will look all the more heartless for beating up on someone who has served their country.

6. The further away you live from water, the better.

7. Include information that is either vague or implausible. The more implausible you make it, the more likely you are to get negative responses. All you need is a pinch of plausibility, as there are many responders who want to believe you.

8. Bonus points if you include information in your first post that you completely change in subsequent posts. This will help you separate your true believers from the doubters. This is the "crack the whip" maneuver.

9. Some responders will want you to be sensible. Remember, they’re haters, and you’re a victim. You will find yourself in a position where you can heap insults on them with impunity, but do it sparingly. Let your defenders do it for you.

10. Eventually, you can compromise your goals and take some of the advice. This will prolong the fun, but at this point you’re approaching the end of your thread. Time to plan your next trolling adventure!
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:16   #78
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

Ahhh...zedpassway's sidekick.
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:28   #79
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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Please help. My name is Lin. My husband Larry and I are thinking about building a 24' wooden sailboat & sailing it around the world several times, without a motor. Are we crazy?
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But that's the problem. Larry was an excellent and experienced sailor and master boat builder. I think that is a totally different scenario than "I have never been on a boat and want to know what boat I should pick to sail around the world."

It was easy for Lin to write "Go simple, go small, go now" when her partner could handle all the sailing and all the building and all the maintenece. She absolutely became a sailor in her own right, but at the beginning she did not have the skills and experience to just jump onboard and go cruising.

They weren't crazy because as a team they had all the skills and experience necessary. They did very low key cruising at first while they learned and settled in and decided if they wanted to do more.

I think that's a decent recommendation for anyone.
I enjoyed both these perspectives. While true, the OP of the thread where the gal with the baby is asking about sailing a C22 on open water is totally inexperienced and at the moment unprepared, there had to be a moment in Lin's life where she was asking similar questions. Everybody starts somewhere. Only the fools with false pride never ask questions. Being a woman with a baby, she probably wants to size the situation up to ensure she is not putting her baby and herself in danger.
Lets say she and her family took some of the advice, bought a stout late 60's Alberg designed cruiser and for the next 20 years traveled, moved up in size and wrote books. Chances are people on this forum would be buying her e-books. Everything starts somewhere. We all make mistakes, we all seem like rookies to someone.
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Old 15-07-2016, 07:44   #80
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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No need to "think." It IS totally different!

Whole lot of apples and oranges comparisons going on around here. But then, it's the internet, so what do you expect?
Nothing like missing the point & then being glib about it. Of course it's apples & oranges. My point is you wouldn't know that if all you knew about them was their first post. We make assumptions & draw conclusions about new posters based upon very little information & then throw a bunch of generalities at them. While it's true that most are just dreamers & unrealistic & some are just trolls there are some who will actually buy a $10,000 boat & sail around the world with their family.

I'm reminded of a single mother with no experience who posted on the site a few years ago that she wanted to buy a really large motor cruiser & take her kids on an adventure. That thread went on for months & pretty much every comment was designed to dissuade her. Well, she did it.
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Old 15-07-2016, 08:34   #81
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

YES!

The point is, I think, that so many of the skills are not taught at school nor at any ASA course but we acquire them as we go. And to go is about the only way to acquire them. So one must take the risk, cut the lines and ... sink or swim.

What I mean is that (an extreme example) learning to sail a boat offshore or across an ocean is done by doing exactly that.

And so, for the inexperienced, the way to become experienced is by learning AND taking risks. We are living in societies that promote NO RISK taking. I am not sure this policy is taking us to the right places. It sure will not take one with 10k and a baby to achieve anything else than perhaps 100k and three babies.

Active life is about learning, trying, living it, taking risks. This does not mean doing stupid things. Neither does it mean sitting on our ( ...) listening to those who say one can't.

Oh, how I love those threads where the OP gets scared away leaving the field all to ourselves with our well established views ;-)

Love,
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Old 15-07-2016, 08:42   #82
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

I don't think most people would have dissuaded the Pardey's if they had posted here with a full account of their process and plans. They definitely would have been brought to task by the folks who are convinced that simple boats are "camping" and no one (especially a woman! Where will she plug in her hair dryer??!) will enjoy it for more than a weekend.

I think their emphasis on self-sufficiency would have been called into question, but that it is hard to tell since they did change their equipment as things were developed and their physical abilities changed.

I am just glad people are sailing. It's about 1-2% of boats where I live so the more sailors, the better.
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Old 15-07-2016, 08:42   #83
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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Someone bored me thinks.
I did. Its been fun. Don't you like fun?
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Old 15-07-2016, 08:53   #84
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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T
Now to put a slightly different perspective on things, I'm still new to the world of sailing and I've met guys in the marina with decades of sailing experience. When I ask them how they deal with the tides and currents in certain situations they are confused by what the tides and currents have to do with it. We've had a baptism by fire and take all these things into consideration when we do anything.
.
I find that experienced sailors are over-rated. We took one along on our maiden voyage, which was only to go from the launch 6 miles away to the mooring.

When the Outboard died due to ethanol poisoning, he had no idea what to do. Instead of taking us into shore to one of the numerous private docks(USCG rules say that in an emergency you can tie up at anyone's dock), he took us out into the middle of the bay looking for wind. And then the wind died completely, and then he remembers that the wind dies in the evening. And then he asks where the booze is so that we can all get drunk.

Eventually we have to call the USCG because we are drifting on the tide toward a rocky shore. When we call he takes the phone and tells them that there is no emergency, because he is too embarrassed to accept that we are in danger. I have to take the phone away from him. If we had gotten drunk and the USCG had arrived, we would have been locked up after we got to shore.

Basically most of the major problems were caused by my believing the experienced sailor's stupid advice. I would have sailed for the nearest dock when we has just a little bit of wind, and rowed the rest of the way with the dinghy, but he said that would be embarrassing. Thank goodness I had no booze aboard.

Experienced sailors often have very limited experience.
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Old 15-07-2016, 09:16   #85
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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.........................
................ Experienced sailors often have very limited experience.
This appears to be an impossible contradiction, but I guess your point is that many people claim to have experience and skills far beyond what is true. I do see that among some people, but I more often find people to be modest and with skills beyond any outward claim.

The disappointing people do tend to take center stage!
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Old 15-07-2016, 09:45   #86
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

Experience is not linear. The amount you gain the the first 1,000 miles is not the same as the experience gained in the 200,000 to 201,000 miles. A kind of logarithmic levelling occurs over time, where experience become less and less meaningful.

The other point is that the majority of problems you encounter are not repeatable within the same context and are not solvable just through route learning and techniques. What you do gain are the principles that can be applied to similar problems, principles that can be used to creatively solve unique problems in new ways.

The hardest part isn't in the learning or experience, it's in the acclimation to a new lifestyle and a new way of thinking and experiencing. Making the transition from one kind of world to another is where people break down.
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Old 15-07-2016, 09:55   #87
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

I would suspect than those that can and may really do the "I have $X and want to sail RTW" wouldn't ask on a forum. Most people understand that asking is asking to be told No!
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Old 15-07-2016, 10:04   #88
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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When the Outboard died due to ethanol poisoning, he had no idea what to do.

Outboards don't die from ethanol poising, people do.

Sounds like you guys didn't have enough "experience" with outboards, lawnmower engines etc

It's the strangest thing to blame ethanol in gasoline for engine problems since the engines were built to run on it

So does that make you an inexperience sailor, or inexperienced mechanic, or both?

Also, how much did it take to get the experienced guy drunk? I'll need to know that to check his experience level....


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Old 15-07-2016, 10:23   #89
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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I'm still betting that you did not take a baby on a trip down the west coast in a 22 foot boat. My wife wants to know how she is going to deal with the diapers.

Even when I was very new I knew stuff. Perhaps seeing a movie likeTHE PERFECT STORM could help. But then, I relied on libraries, not just the internet, since there was no internet. A former VP hadn't invented it yet.

You better use your Zed passes to take your baby go around the world, .
I tried to be realistic and safer.


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Old 15-07-2016, 10:50   #90
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Re: New, have $10K, family, and baby want to live aboard...

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Experience is not linear. The amount you gain the the first 1,000 miles is not the same as the experience gained in the 200,000 to 201,000 miles. A kind of logarithmic levelling occurs over time, where experience become less and less meaningful.

The other point is that the majority of problems you encounter are not repeatable within the same context and are not solvable just through route learning and techniques. What you do gain are the principles that can be applied to similar problems, principles that can be used to creatively solve unique problems in new ways.

The hardest part isn't in the learning or experience, it's in the acclimation to a new lifestyle and a new way of thinking and experiencing. Making the transition from one kind of world to another is where people break down.
In my "experience" this is the most thoughtful answer I've read today.
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