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Old 16-03-2014, 07:22   #1
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Need some direction

I'm new here to this forum, so I haven't had the chance to get to know the community here on this site.
I have been around powerboats all my life, love the work. done my research and would like to try my hand at sailing.
I have never sailed before and I don't have any friends that do.
I am looking for a small shoal draft sailboat between 19-25 feet
to rebuild and setup as a pocket cruiser.
In my area of the country there is a powerboat lot on almost every street there literaly everywhere but they don't sell sailboats.
Sailboatlistings.com are often out of date, and Ebay isn't much help either.
I was hoping that someone could give me some direction on a good place to start to look for one of the following boats
Able 20
Alberg 22
American 23 Mariner
Bayfield 23/25
Cape Dory 22
Columbia /Challenger/ Contender 24
Kenner Kittiwake 23
Lancer 25
Seafarer 23 Kestrel Prefered Model
South Coast 23
Pacific Dolphin 24
Savage Nautilus 19
Starboard Yachts Seaward 23/25

any leads/advice is welcome
thanks,
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Old 16-03-2014, 07:50   #2
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Re: Need some direction

Welcome aboard! That's a good list of boats to start from. My first sailboat was a 1978 cape dory 25 with an outboard. That model came either way with a small single cylinder diesel or outboard in a well. She was a great learning boat and could handle herself when the winds picked up.
Maybe, depending on where you're located someone can take you out on some of those boats you have listed. The more you get out the more you'll figure out what you like.
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Old 16-03-2014, 07:58   #3
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Re: Need some direction

When looking for deals on smaller boats I have found craigslist very helpful. If you use a service like "craigslist helper" you can set up auto searches of vast parts of the country....
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:01   #4
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Re: Need some direction

I have tried Craigslist, boat trader.com and the magazine, newspapers, just to name a few other places I have already checked. I realize that there are alot of other worthy boats out there, I am not trying to offend anyone. or discredit any designer or manufacturer. I liked the Pacific Seacraft, Halman, Flicka, Nimble, Amigo, etc and after a careful evaluation of over 300 boats for one reason or another these other boats aren't what I'm looking for.
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:06   #5
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Re: Need some direction

I learned to sail in a sailing school so I'm a big proponent of going in that direction before buying a boat. There are many different kinds of sailboats and they are all compromises in one way or another. I was able to sail several different kinds of boats in my club and met people in the club that had their own boats and got to go sailing with many of them. From my perspective, I can't understand how someone could spend a large amount of money on a boat without knowing what kind of sailor you are and what strengths you would be looking for in a sailboat.

Some schools googled in N. Carolina:
North Carolina Sailing Schools | American Sailing Association

The only boat on your list that I come close to knowing about is the Columbia. Our club had a Columbia 26, not very well built, sailed poorly. So if the Columbia 24 is similar I wouldn't get it.
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:09   #6
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Re: Need some direction

I have found sailboatlistings.com to be pretty reliable with their listings and would have something in the market your looking at. Yachtworld.com might have something, but at entry level boats the brokers are not usually very helpful.
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:14   #7
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Re: Need some direction

I wasn't aware of the Craigslist Help service, I'll have to check that out. Thanks
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:22   #8
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Re: Need some direction

DDSailor25

Cape Dory 25 a George Stadel design. That is an awesome boat. Long Keel Inboard Capable great cabin layout. and doesn't draw but about 3 feet. Her classic sheer line is beautiful, reminds me a little of the Sam Rabl Picaroon. only drawback is the lack of headroom. but I think I could learn to live with that.
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:30   #9
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Re: Need some direction

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddsailor25 View Post
I have found sailboatlistings.com to be pretty reliable with their listings and would have something in the market your looking at. Yachtworld.com might have something, but at entry level boats the brokers are not usually very helpful.
Your correct, most brokers work of commision, so it wouldn't make sense for them
to waste there time on a customer like me. I don't blame them at all, its just buisiness.
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Old 16-03-2014, 08:37   #10
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Re: Need some direction

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Originally Posted by SaltyMutt View Post
I have tried Craigslist, boat trader.com and the magazine, newspapers, just to name a few other places I have already checked. I realize that there are alot of other worthy boats out there, I am not trying to offend anyone. or discredit any designer or manufacturer. I liked the Pacific Seacraft, Halman, Flicka, Nimble, Amigo, etc and after a careful evaluation of over 300 boats for one reason or another these other boats aren't what I'm looking for.
I dont mean to sound argumentative, but how can you rule out boats as, "not what I'm looking for" if you've never been sailing? You need to go out and get on some boats to see what really works for you or not.

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Old 16-03-2014, 09:07   #11
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Re: Need some direction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin84 View Post
I dont mean to sound argumentative, but how can you rule out boats as, "not what I'm looking for" if you've never been sailing? You need to go out and get on some boats to see what really works for you or not.

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Salty Mutt...

Welcome to CF!!!!

I quoted Kevin above, as it was along the line of my thinking.... You haven't been sailing, and honestly ALL boats have major compromises when compared to the perfect boat... Case in point... I had my heart set on buying a Ferrari Mondial for a long time... Drove a bunch, and found that it just wasn't "good enough" at pleasing all of my wants.... EVEN THOUGH I HAS SPENT HUNDREDS OF HOURS, RESEARCHING AND CONVINCED MYSELF this was the perfect car for what I wanted... I bought a completely different animal....

Your list is missing all of the great cheap starter boats.... Go buy a 3k Catalina or the like... get your feet wet... Find out what you like/need/hate... Look for your perfect boat after a year.... Summer is just around the corner...
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Old 16-03-2014, 09:35   #12
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Re: Need some direction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin84 View Post
I dont mean to sound argumentative, but how can you rule out boats as, "not what I'm looking for" if you've never been sailing? You need to go out and get on some boats to see what really works for you or not.

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Thats a good question, and a fair one. I don't have any experience sailing, no. but I have spent decades on the water, I know about winds,tides,currents,shoals, navigation, (rules of the road) maintenance, safety, I am pretty quick on deck and I can handle rigs and lines pretty well. I Know what waters I am going to sail in, so I know I need shallow draft. I have spent quite a bit of overnighters and I know what I want in a cabin layout.
Price is an issue. I'm not looking to spend a whole lot of money on one.

As for what kind of sailor I am? well...
I'm not looking to circumnavigate I can tell you that. I'm not that ambitious.
I would like a shallow draft, Long keel, Inboard, Fractional Sloop.
I'm not a racer at heart. I'm not one of those people who get mad when someone
cruises past me in a faster boat. I like to enjoy the water peacefuly
I don't want to some captain to be yelling at me over nothing and ruining my good
time. I prefer to sail alone or with a close friend.
I come from humble beginnings, I don't have to have the best of everything.
I learned to make due with what I had.

I would like to have a stiff, slow shallow draft pocket cruiser.
I have read alot of books on sailing and although I have never "Tacked into the wind" I'm sure I wouldn't like it. (Thats what a motor is for) some old timers might ask wheres the art in that?
well; there isn't any. I'm not an artist, a racer, extremely adventurous circumnavigtor. I'm just a simple down to earth guy who loves the water.
I am confident I can make any of those boats work for me.
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:09   #13
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Re: Need some direction

I appreciate your time and assistance guys, I'll setup Craigslist, and I'll consider a sailing school, or at least going sailing once before I buy one.
If any of you know any small boat dealers in eastern N.C. that
carry sailboats let me know. or marinas that maybe have one of
those boats for sale send me a message or reply to this forum.

Thanks again.
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Old 16-03-2014, 10:26   #14
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Re: Need some direction

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMutt View Post
DDSailor25

Cape Dory 25 a George Stadel design. That is an awesome boat. Long Keel Inboard Capable great cabin layout. and doesn't draw but about 3 feet. Her classic sheer line is beautiful, reminds me a little of the Sam Rabl Picaroon. only drawback is the lack of headroom. but I think I could learn to live with that.
Personally, I don't think a boat should be passed on for lack of standing headroom. I'm 6'5" and my boat doesn't have standing headroom for me and I still enjoy my boat. I see it as a non-issue.

Plenty of boats out there and I hope you find one that you'll enjoy and gets you out on the water.
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Old 17-03-2014, 10:06   #15
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Re: Need some direction

My wife and I searched for more than a year for the boat that would best suit our needs. At first we solicited the help of a broker in the search for a vessel but quickly came to determine less than truthful communication coming from the person/brokerage, so we changed brokers, to help with our purchase search, but this time we put this fellow on notice that if we detected anything less than FULL truth from either parties we were DONE regardless of where the transaction was; and again we found another broker to be purporting BS to us regarding a vessel we were considering... Although a minor half truth... still the statement was a lie "Oh there are not haul our facilities in Pensacola" a simple Internet search told us this was garbage. After this we really stepped back and looked at our need for a broker and realized that all a broker did was want to sell the boat so he or she could get paid and because of their commission in the price this really hampered negotiation. All the broker cares about is getting PAID and we determined that although we had not owned a sailboat prior, that a through survey and our knowledge from the past BS taught by other brokers we knew enough. It is our finding that anyone with patience can determine and find the right sail boat for their needs but that a meticulous independent survey is a requirement before acceptance... The brokers seek to make thousands from just showing you (the buyer) a boat and they often get kick back at every turn from finance companies and other people in the process for directing a buyers money (you'll never know about those kick backs)... KICK broker to the curb they do NOTHING for the buyer or seller... we bought our boat directly from the seller on sailboatlistings.com beware there are many brokers on this site acting like the owner/seller and when you call they divulge this but STAY AWAY from these people that do nothing; all they are is nautical used care salesmen in many cases. If the broker lies to you on any one thing who's to know where the other lies are?
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