Multihull in distress.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

s/v Jedi and Kenomac are correct.



They are just leaving out that Catamaran’s are designed to lose their mast at 50 knots with FULL SAILS UP.



At 50 Knots you should have NO SAILS UP on a catamaran.



All catamarans are designed with a Safe Sail Plan and Reefing Chart.



If you violate the design of the catamaran’s Safe Sail Plan and Reefing Chart you hit the limit of its design and risk losing the mast .



It’s much better to lose a mast then to let the catamaran flip over.

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Any proof of this 'designed to lose your mast' stuff?

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I believe the "fuse" theory has actually been proven by the fact that the ill fated catamaran which this thread is about, survived in an upright position with the rig collapsed. The skipper, for whatever reason, had too much sail up during a 50 knot plus gale.... something's gotta give, otherwise the cat is tipping over.



Look's to me like a well-designed boat with a safety factor built in to prevent catastrophy. The evidence is right there in the pictures... boat still afloat upright, with rig hanging off the side with a sail still attached.

Anecdotal evidence is not proof. No one here really knows anything about that specific boat or exactly what happened. You're all just speculating.

Let's see some documentation from rigging guidelines, manuals or from the manufacturers manuals or something. That would be proof.

I've already looked, by the way, and haven't found any. Happy to be proven wrong with some actual evidence, however.

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by tp12

Any proof of this 'designed to lose your mast' stuff?

Yes!!!

https://www.google.com/search?q=cata...w=1280&bih=894
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[tp12]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Yes!!!

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Oh do be serious, read my post just above yours.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by tp12

Anecdotal evidence is not proof. No one here really knows anything about that specific boat or exactly what happened. You're all just speculating.

Let's see some documentation from rigging guidelines, manuals or from the manufacturers manuals or something. That would be proof.

I've already looked, by the way, and haven't found any. Happy to be proven wrong with some actual evidence, however.

So you're instead suggesting the rigs on cats are presently engineered to be strong enough to flip the boat during an unexpected gust? Why would't the designers build a safety "fuse" into the design?

Seems logical to me.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

So you're instead suggesting the rigs on cats are presentlt engineered to be strong enough to flip the boat during an unexpected gust? Why would't the designers build a safety "fuse" into the design?

Yes, that's right. If you read my above posts you can see I've spoken to manufacturers, a very experienced and well respected rigger and also done my own web searching. All of which, so far, confirms that.


Think of the liability issues with a rig coming down on top of the owner. It could kill someone, let alone severely damage the boat. I can't see a manufacturer exposing themselves to that risk by design.

As I've also said, if you have evidence to the contrary I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by tp12

Yes, that's right. If you read my above posts you can see I've spoken to manufacturers, a very experienced and well respected rigger and also done my own web searching. All of which, so far, confirms that.


Think of the liability issues with a rig coming down on top of the owner. It could kill someone, let alone severely damage the boat. I can't see a manufacturer exposing themselves to that risk by design.

As I've also said, if you have evidence to the contrary I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I guess your "web searching" certainly trumps any actual photographic evidence or my conversation with factory reps.

You win.

[brownoarsman]

Originally Posted by tp12

As I've also said, if you have evidence to the contrary I'm happy to be proven wrong.

In the attached link you'll find this sailing mag quote/review:
"But Heavenly Twins is a different kettle of fish to the light displacement, ultra-high performance , racing cat however. She sits so solidly on the water beneath her modest rig, that the makers claim the sails or mast will give before the boat blows over - if you are ever crazy enough to sail fully canvassed in a gale, that is."

http://www.heavenlytwins.co.uk/reviews.php

I'm late to this game but I'm declaring victory.

[boatman61]

YES...

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ed-175996.html

https://www.bing.com/search?q=catama...90082E1B578CD5

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...e-12809-6.html

[brownoarsman]

Originally Posted by boatman61

YES...

I got there first, boatman, and I DEMAND TRIBUTE!!!!

Just kidding

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I guess your "web searching" certainly trumps any actual photographic evidence or my conversation with factory reps.



You win.

So I put up a picture of a capsized catamaran, which completely disproves your argument, and where does that leave us? Be serious.

Evidence gentlemen.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

In the attached link you'll find this sailing mag quote/review:
"But Heavenly Twins is a different kettle of fish to the light displacement, ultra-high performance , racing cat however. She sits so solidly on the water beneath her modest rig, that the makers claim the sails or mast will give before the boat blows over - if you are ever crazy enough to sail fully canvassed in a gale, that is."

http://www.heavenlytwins.co.uk/reviews.php

I'm late to this game but I'm declaring victory.

A quote from a journalist.... so this should therefore be written in a manual for the boat. Or in some sort of factory documentation, if we're actually true. No?

So where's that?

I'll have a look and see.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

I got there first, boatman, and I DEMAND TRIBUTE!!!!

Just kidding

All Hail..!!!

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I believe the "fuse" theory has actually been proven by the fact that the ill fated catamaran which this thread is about, survived in an upright position with the rig collapsed. The skipper, for whatever reason, had too much sail up during a 50 knot plus gale.... something's gotta give, otherwise the cat is tipping over.

Look's to me like a well-designed boat with a safety factor built in to prevent catastrophy. The evidence is right there in the pictures... boat still afloat upright, with rig hanging off the side with a sail still attached.

So what happens to your theory when you look at Cats that flipped?

[tp12]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

In the attached link you'll find this sailing mag quote/review:
"But Heavenly Twins is a different kettle of fish to the light displacement, ultra-high performance , racing cat however. She sits so solidly on the water beneath her modest rig, that the makers claim the sails or mast will give before the boat blows over - if you are ever crazy enough to sail fully canvassed in a gale, that is."

http://www.heavenlytwins.co.uk/reviews.php

I'm late to this game but I'm declaring victory.

So, further to my last post quoting you...the stability page on the heavenly twins site talks about wind speed for lifting a hull yet strangely omits this 'designed in safety feature' of the mast coming down - http://www.heavenlytwins.co.uk/master.php (not a direct link I don't think, click Stability

Or, read this quote from the site

Originally Posted by heavenlytwinssite

The figures simply indicate the windspeed at which the weather hull will begin to lift. From the calculations it can be seen that if nothing is allowed for wind gusts and the fact that the craft is passing through water, the Heavenly Twins 26, under full working sail will begin to lift a hull at 32.59 knots of wind when unladen and 35.71 knots when fully loaded. To calculate the dynamic stability which takes account of wind gusts and wave action, multiply by a factor of 0.6 to give the safe working windspeed. The results are 19.56 knots and 21.42 knots respectively.

Why not mention this safety feature?

What's the deal with Heavenly Twins? Were they a production boat or a design you could buy and build? Anyone have any further documentation on them? I'll keep looking...