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Old 02-11-2011, 16:05   #31
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

Pretty much anywhere can kill ya

"Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating"? - maybe it's not knowing the potential you can face.

Especially when doing things with names like: "The Pina Colada Run". "I stocked up with plenty of Rum and sunscreen - who could have predicted weather over a F3 when I got to the spot where the Penguins sold ice cubes???!"
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Old 02-11-2011, 16:18   #32
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Re: Most dangerous sailing/boating

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Originally Posted by Piney View Post
Big waves, strong winds, frigid water, lee shore, strong currents, shallow bars. Anything else would be boring..
Boring works for us...frigid waters especially don't!

We fully agree with the OP that the hard bits and all that accompanies them (land and other vessels) are far more dangerous than open seas...and we would add a further appeal to the open seas must be the lazy comfort of being able (when the opportunity presents!) to set the sails for hours or even days and weeks while the miles glide quietly under the hulls.
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Old 02-11-2011, 16:41   #33
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

Safety in sailing means sea room just like safety in flying means altitude. Both ideas are foreign to the uninformed...
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Old 02-11-2011, 17:03   #34
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Re: Most dangerous sailing/boating

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Originally Posted by Seahunter View Post
Top 10 boating insurance claims:
(according to Saga Boat Institute) It's easy to see where it's the safest.
  1. Hitting a submerged object while coastal cruising
  2. Theft while anchored
  3. Collision with other boats while boating
  4. Storm damage while moored
  5. Theft while in storage
  6. Accidental damage while cruising
  7. Flooding while moored
  8. Sinking while moored
  9. Owner negligence while cruising
  10. Accidental damage while moored
At anchor/moored grouped together seems the biggest issue. sounds right.
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Old 02-11-2011, 17:18   #35
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Re: Most dangerous sailing/boating

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At anchor/moored grouped together seems the biggest issue. sounds right.
Yes, but most of these listed insurance claims are for monetary loss and not injury or loss of life. As others have posted, I think the big risk is in transition from open ocean when approaching and breaking an inlet. Of course, I've also heard that old axiom that most sailors drown at sea with their zipper down!
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Old 02-11-2011, 19:25   #36
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Re: Most dangerous sailing/boating

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Heck that would seem to make blue water be about 100 yards out.

In the Boston area there are NOAA bouys in the Boston bay and one at Gloucester. Physically they are about 20 miles from each other, but the weather at each is a LOT different a lot of times (probably why each is there). So when I cross across the bay which is a normal day sail am I in Blue Water?

On the other hand once out to each of the bouys I'm far from most dangers and except for not hitting the bouy and making it across the shipping lane it is way safer than along the general Boston area coast that has all kinds of danger.
Don,

Sounds to me like you've never been out in 40 knot wind and 20 ft seas. Or did you go out for a sail last Saturday night? If you had any sense, you didn't, because that weather system was forecast well in advance.

Paying attention to where you are, what's around you, and not running into anything is what you should learn in a basic Coast Guard Auxiliary boating class. Sailing in Boston Harbor demands that you pay attention, but it is not frightening, at least in normal settled summer conditions. Sailing in a gale is, and most sensible people avoid it if they can. That's the difference between blue water and coastal cruising--you can't avoid the gales.
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Old 02-11-2011, 19:45   #37
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

With coastal cruising, you have a much greater likelihood of damaging your boat (or someone else's).

Offshore, you have a much greater chance of dying.

You can determine for yourself which is more "dangerous."
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Old 02-11-2011, 19:54   #38
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Re: Most dangerous sailing/boating

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Don,

Sounds to me like you've never been out in 40 knot wind and 20 ft seas. Or did you go out for a sail last Saturday night? If you had any sense, you didn't, because that weather system was forecast well in advance.

Paying attention to where you are, what's around you, and not running into anything is what you should learn in a basic Coast Guard Auxiliary boating class. Sailing in Boston Harbor demands that you pay attention, but it is not frightening, at least in normal settled summer conditions. Sailing in a gale is, and most sensible people avoid it if they can. That's the difference between blue water and coastal cruising--you can't avoid the gales.

Thanks for the ............... lecture? But I think you have me confused with an idiot.
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Old 02-11-2011, 22:38   #39
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

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Offshore, you have a much greater chance of dying.
Will you direct me to the source material for this claim, please?
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Old 02-11-2011, 23:06   #40
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

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Will you direct me to the source material for this claim, please?
What's your logic for disputing this statement? Please present your statistics on how many deaths have resulted from coastal accidents (say within 50 miles of land).

I will point to Fastnet in 1979, to the fatalities in the Hobart to Sidney race, and the various boats that have been lost on the run from Tonga to New Zealand to support my statement. And many of those deaths involved experienced crews, not mom and pop operations.

I will concede that coastal piracy is a bigger threat than bad weather offshore for those who cruise areas like Somalia and Mindanao.
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Old 02-11-2011, 23:55   #41
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

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What's your logic for disputing this statement? Please present your statistics on how many deaths have resulted from coastal accidents (say within 50 miles of land).
I didn't oppose the validity of your statement. I requested published statistics supporting the statement that you made. I don't have any statistics because I have not made any unsupported claims.

Personally, I believe your statement is your opinion. I also believe that if you investigate your own opinion that you will find it to be incorrect. I also think it is absurd that people continue to reference a race from 1979 when claiming the dangers of the open ocean. Additionally, I believe that using deaths in any racing environment as the basis for an argument to be misguided.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:06   #42
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

Re Most dangerous Boating

I was in a cyclone within 50nm from land...

It was in cook straight in New Zealand. I watched the wind meter click up to 96knts at one point but a never saw it go below 70knts for a good while. Waves and high wind stuck around for 36 hours, wasn't sure if I was going to stand on land again during that time.

I was also in a 700 ton steel trawler and couldn't be sure it wasn't going to get overwhelmed. Multiple times the wheel house got green water smashed (and I really mean smashed!) against it. Waves I would say were 10-15m high but very steep and often breaking and hence they overwhelmed the for'ard free board quite easily.

Amount of spray around was staggering. We struggled to see the back of the boat from the wheelhouse and this boat had VERY bright spot lights right down the length of the boat The lights were only just visible about 30% of the time.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:41   #43
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

If, "A ship is safe in the harbor, but that's not what ships are for" (William Shedd/Shedd family from Salt in My Attic, 1928, quoted by Grant Bright) is true, then why do most boats sink in marinas?
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Old 03-11-2011, 04:16   #44
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

Although most boat sinkings occur in marinas and most boating fatalities occur within inland protected waters, these data are impacted by where most boats and boaters are located. I suspect that we can all agree that the majority of these events occur due to poor judgement and human error. I think we could also agree that offshore cruisers have more experience and take more serious consideration of risks that the casual weekend inshore boater. Accepting this makes it very difficult to site statistics to evaluate the safety of offshore cruising.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:37   #45
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Re: Most Dangerous Sailing / Boating Is Coastal, Not Offshore

Dangerous? How about NYC? To go from my home in the Huson River to the great cruising grounds of N. england involves a 4o mile trip thru these highly congested waters with: high speed water taxis zigging across everywhere ,Helicopters arriving and taking off along the waterfront ,large cruise ships departing pulled by multiple tugs in and out of bearths,Homeland security and police boats armed with 50 cal.machine guns ,protecting the Large ferries that move across your course every few minutes, circle line tourist boats ,large tugs with huge barges struggling with strong currents and control ,garbage barges piled high large sport fishermen driven by Tony Soprano types weaving through this caldron in a rush to get to LI sound or Jersey,very strong reversing currents that require precise timing ,narrow, constricted ,areas where standing waves are over laid with reflected wakes from the vertical sea walls along the east river section,construction barges blocking your passage,(what? you didn't check notice to mariners?) Humorless military shutting of this E.river section completly down when the U.N. is in session( what? you didn't check the U.N. scheldue?).
Did I mention Hells Gate?
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