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Old 07-02-2013, 08:21   #1
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More registration problems

I am a long time resident of the US ( Green Card) and a UK citizen. I bought an Italian registered boat in Panama. It took 10 weeks to get the Italian deregistration docs.

I can't register it with the USCG ( US Citizens only). I tried to register it with UK small Ships online and they are now asking for proof of UK residency which I do not have as I live in the states.

I feel like a stateless person. I guess I will have to spend the money and form a company to hold the boat.
Any other suggestions
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:26   #2
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Re: More registration problems

Depending on your cruising plans you can easily do a state registration in the USA. Do not have to be a citizen or in some cases not even a resident of the state. Depending on the state it is not too expensive and would not incur any further expenses like annual taxes.

BUT, if you plan on cruising beyond the US or Bahamas the state registration documents could be a problem. The state documents are not as "official" as USCG documentation and will be looked at with suspicion in some places.

Another idea, do you not have any family or friends in the UK that you can use for a mailing address? Or would that open another can of worms and expose you to UK income taxes, VAT and a whole host of hassles?
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:41   #3
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Re: More registration problems

I have a valid mailing address in the UK and applied online for the UK small ships. I researched previous posts on this forum and the consensus was that the UK SSR was easy, which it was until I got an email from them asking for "proof of residency"

The boat is in Panama Central America so I don't think a state registration will work.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:13   #4
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pirate Re: More registration problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel sails View Post
I have a valid mailing address in the UK and applied online for the UK small ships. I researched previous posts on this forum and the consensus was that the UK SSR was easy, which it was until I got an email from them asking for "proof of residency"

The boat is in Panama Central America so I don't think a state registration will work.
I'll bet when you paid online you used a US credit card... then had to enter the address the card was at... bet that was a US address...
Bingo... your busted..
If you have an address in the UK... download and fill in the form by hand and mail it to the UK address.. get them to enclose a postal order in your name and send it on to DVLC or whoevers doing it these days... they (friend/family) can then forward it on to you..
The worm in many/all cases is the foreign credit card...
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:25   #5
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Re: More registration problems

According to the UK registry site,

Fees, forms and checklists for registering pleasure craft | nidirect


part III registry is only available to UK citizens RESIDING in the UK. But part I registry is apparently available to any UK citizen, regardless of residency.

From a UK lawyer's site:

Register your boat under Part 1 of the UK Ship Register if:
  • It is over 24 metres in length
  • It is owned by a company
  • A lender has taken security over the boat and requires a marine mortgage or charge to be registered against it
  • You intend to cruise in international waters for long period of times.
Register your boat under Part 3 of the Small ShipsRegister if:
  • It is under 24 metres in length
  • It is owned by a private individual(s) ordinarily resident in UK
  • It is not subject to marine finance or loan arrangement
  • You only intend to cruise in UK waters
So... you want part I registry.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:31   #6
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Re: More registration problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel sails View Post
Any other suggestions
You could Part 1 register in Jersey (no need to be a resident). Obviously more expensive than the SSR, but would be cheaper than going down the company Registration route (at least in comparison to the usual Offshore jurisdictions). In any event can't do the SSR via a company.

Has been mentioned here on CF that Belguim is cheap and painless (whether true or not I don't know) - and is open to non-residents (although whether that also non EU residents I also don't know), but perhaps worth a Google.

I would also "investigate" whether a different approach on the SSR would do the trick, if you can magick up a UK address and sounds like also a UK cheque..........

.....AFAIK no link between HMRC (the UK tax man) and the SSR people - so declaring in one that you are a UK resident probably won't automatically cause aggro with the taxman. Probably , and of course that could change.......

You pays (or don't!) yer money and takes yer chances .

LATE EDIT - UK does not require UK residency for Part 1 (as I orginally stated).....my bad!...but you need a UK resident representative (with a UK address obviously).

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-hom...ligibility.htm
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:36   #7
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pirate Re: More registration problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
You could Part 1 register in Jersey (no need to be a resident - UK requires that you are). Obviously more expensive than the SSR, but would be cheaper than going down the company Registration route (at least in comparison to the usual Offshore jurisdictions). In any event can't do the SSR via a company.

Has been mentioned here on CF that Belguim is cheap and painless (whether true or not I don't know) - and is open to non-residents (although whether that also non EU residents I also don't know), but perhaps worth a Google.

I would also "investigate" whether a different approach on the SSR would do the trick, if you can magick up a UK address and sounds like also a UK cheque..........

.....AFAIK no link between HMRC (the UK tax man) and the SSR people - so declaring in one that you are a UK resident probably won't automatically cause aggro with the taxman. Probably , and of course that could change.......

You pays (or don't!) yer money and takes yer chances .
Think I'm gonna PM info to back doors in future... just occured to me all this 'Wide Open' advice could just end up shooting me in my own foot... £25/5yrs is one thing but the addition of a return fare to the UK just to sit by a landline waiting for the check up is over the top..
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:16   #8
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Re: More registration problems

If I read your post correctly, the boat is in Panama? I think the registration process may be very simple there, and is recognized everywhere. You might want to look into that way of solving your problem.____Grant.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:20   #9
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Re: More registration problems

Possible to Canada register?
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:52   #10
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Re: More registration problems

As others have said, "you should be able to register it in most states!" But again there are buts!

For example, if you register a boat here in Massachusetts without having paid the sales tax else where, you may be liable to either the state sales tax or the water usage fee which is most likely not less than the sales tax.

Rhode Island is the only state that I am aware of that did away with sales taxes on boats.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:03   #11
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Re: More registration problems

I dont believe Oregon has sales tax on boats. Not sure if you can register there without a real address though. and with an address you may get charged a use fee each year...
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:08   #12
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Re: More registration problems

Just register the boat in Panama, they will be happy to take your money ! and it can be handled by the folks you probley bought the boat from, if ya used a broker ! Just sayin I would at least try it out to see!!
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:17   #13
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Re: More registration problems

Is there a pattern of problems with buying Italian boats? Go to the subforum, Rules and Regs and read the thread titled :"I need some advice here". It sounds like you did good to get it de-reged in just 10 weeks. This might be a heads up for anyone wanting to buy a foreign flag boat, although I bought a Canadian boat and had no trouble getting it Documented (pleasure vessel) here in the states. Just something to consider. ____Grant.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:52   #14
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Re: More registration problems

Some states like VA do have annual taxes for boats. MD require owner to pay one time 5% sales tax on any vessel brought into its waters.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:57   #15
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Re: More registration problems

If you flag it UK you will only be able to keep the boat in the US for 1 year under a cruising permit. Then you will have to leave for at least 15 days.
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