Monohull to Multihull

[kiper204]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

another mono vs catamaran thread?? How many does this make?

Thats not what its supposed to be ... I just wanted to know how different the sailing was from one to the other. Things that have to be done different, what are the no-no's on a cat. Plus how it handles in rough weather... what to look for when buying one...yada yada. What is "better" is all just opinion anyway... no one owns the best boat in the world... altho imost people think they do.

[Sand crab]

Kiper, Have you read Gregor Tarjans book Catamarans The Complete Guide for the Cruising Sailor? It spells out the pros and cons of cats (and monos) and is a must read for anyone in your situation. Also has lots of very pretty pictures and we never get enough of that. And in stock at Barnes and Noble. Spend $40 and most of your questions will be answered. It worked for me. BOB

[imagine2frolic]

I keep Chris White's THE CRUISING MULTIHULL in the book case near my pillow, another good read........i2f

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

I am not arguing here, just relating my experience and understanding.... and seeking the truth from those wiser than me... it's why I'm here...

To be honest, I've only ever sailed on two large cats... but I found this written all over the place, and it makes sense from my beachcat racing experience.

Not starting an argument?

Just using your admitted limited experience, and what you had heard by others, who may well be equally as ill informed
and then pushing that as fact

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by kiper204

Thank you for all the good info !!!

Mostly from a piss take trolling thread

I usually don't take as gospel everything I read or listen to especially when it comes from people who don't have actual experience.

[kiper204]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Kiper, Have you read Gregor Tarjans book Catamarans The Complete Guide for the Cruising Sailor? It spells out the pros and cons of cats (and monos) and is a must read for anyone in your situation. Also has lots of very pretty pictures and we never get enough of that. And in stock at Barnes and Noble. Spend $40 and most of your questions will be answered. It worked for me. BOB

Thanks Bob, funny you should mention it, as a matter of fact a friend of ours that has a Maincat 41 just gave us that book ... will be reading it shortly

[44'cruisingcat]

CMD has built and sailed a few sailing cats too. He has MUCH more experience with cats than the vast majority of posters here.

Including the person who said all cats pound badly to windward, and avoid windward sailing, even though they had never actually sailed one personally.

Truth is, SOME cats do pound - some don't sail well to windward, but then some mono's don't sail well either. (On any point of sail)

A well designed cat with good bridgedeck clearance wont have waves slapping often, and a well designed cat will sail brilliantly to windward.

[kiper204]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

CMD has built and sailed a few sailing cats too. He has MUCH more experience with cats than the vast majority of posters here.

Including the person who said all cats pound badly to windward, and avoid windward sailing, even though they had never actually sailed one personally.

Truth is, SOME cats do pound - some don't sail well to windward, but then some mono's don't sail well either. (On any point of sail)

A well designed cat with good bridgedeck clearance wont have waves slapping often, and a well designed cat will sail brilliantly to windward.

I dont often come on these forums because of the bad attitudes, and I think in the future I'll stick to doing my own research online. Anyway.....

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment ... Im sure not all cats pound ... and I want to make sure we get one that has a better chance of not pounding. From what Ive been reading its better to have 40ft or better for offshore smoothness.... being a cat owner would you say that is accurate ?

[Cheechako]

It's all about bridgedeck clearance. A Gemini could be fine for the Keys and Bahamas. Saw quite a few well loaded ones down there....and further! AAnything with a low bridgedeck is going to pound some... get used ot it! A TPI built Lagoon 37 has good clearance. My TPI/Lagoon 42 would almost keep up with my friend's Aluminum 48ft Perrry designed Mono to windward...(crack off for speed, but go faster). Once the wind cracks off to a close reach...the cruising mono doesnt stand a chance. However...if you absolutely hate motorsailing.... lighter air close hauled is not a good thing in a cat! BTW, we moved our liveaboard gear accross the dock from a Passport 47 to Lagoon 42. The Passport was down 5" on the waterline. The Lagoon didnt quite go down 2" with the same gear!

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by kiper204

How different is the sailing motion in rough weather ? Only been on a 41ft Main Cat in good weather .... we have never been afraid of rough weather in our current boat and wonder what a cat is like when seas get a little angry.

The difference between one multihull and another is like night and day, and you can't accurately generalize unless you first decide if you want a "roomeran" or a true water sailing">blue water sailing machine. The "Gemini" was designed down to a price! It is intended for protected local sailing, and has attributes that are fine for this, as well as fitting in many marina slips and smaller travel lifts. It also has a lot of room for it's size. It is not, and was not designed to be, a true blue water boat. If you try to beat to windward in 40 knot winds and 15' seas, it may very well result in serious structural damage, if not worse!

In multihulls... IF you want a weatherly, safe, "blue water boat", It's width would be determined by maximum stability and wave interaction, rather than fitting into a slip.

It would have a relatively low, small, cabin for less windage and low COG.

It would also have ample wing clearance... >2' is a minimum!

It would have easy walkways to the bow, and more open netting than solid deck there.

It would have a balanced, easily handled & reefed sail plan, and STILL allow full visibility forward, WITH the jib up.

It would have ample sized boards or keels for windward ability.

It would also have a lot of storage down low to keep the COG low where it belongs.

There are more important attributes... but the point is, that you can't have it all. At least not in a smaller, less expensive boat. For long range cruising, I'd go with what makes a good boat first, and what resembles an apartment last. Once you get to the bigger boats, they "can" have these seaworthy characteristics and have palatial accommodations too, but NOT cheaply!

My advice... Choose carefully for seaworthiness, or sail prudently in very controlled circumstances.

Best of luck, Mark

[Cheechako]

All very prudent points!...especially: "sail prudently" Based on the craft you have!

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Once the wind cracks off to a close reach...the cruising mono doesnt stand a chance. However...if you absolutely hate motorsailing.... lighter air close hauled is not a good thing in a cat!

Again, depends on the boat
Many is the cat I have sailed on (30 ft to 50ft) that can sail at or near windspeed, to weather in 5 knots of breeze or less.
But I wouldn't exactly call any of them comfortable long term liveaboards
Others would.

BTW, we moved our liveaboard gear accross the dock from a Passport 47 to Lagoon 42. The Passport was down 5" on the waterline. The Lagoon didnt quite go down 2" with the same gear!

And the same cats I mention above, the exact opposite will have happened.
Higher performance multi's do not like to carry a load.
and, load carrying catamarans do not like to sail in light air.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

The difference between one multihull and another is like night and day, and you can't accurately generalize unless you first decide if you want a "roomeran" or a true blue water sailing machine. The "Gemini" was designed down to a price! It is intended for protected local sailing, and has attributes that are fine for this, as well as fitting in many marina slips and smaller travel lifts. It also has a lot of room for it's size. It is not, and was not designed to be, a true blue water boat. If you try to beat to windward in 40 knot winds and 15' seas, it may very well result in serious structural damage, if not worse!

In multihulls... IF you want a weatherly, safe, "blue water boat", It's width would be determined by maximum stability and wave interaction, rather than fitting into a slip.

It would have a relatively low, small, cabin for less windage and low COG.

It would also have ample wing clearance... >2' is a minimum!

It would have easy walkways to the bow, and more open netting than solid deck there.

It would have a balanced, easily handled & reefed sail plan, and STILL allow full visibility forward, WITH the jib up.

It would have ample sized boards or keels for windward ability.

It would also have a lot of storage down low to keep the COG low where it belongs.

There are more important attributes... but the point is, that you can't have it all. At least not in a smaller, less expensive boat. For long range cruising, I'd go with what makes a good boat first, and what resembles an apartment last. Once you get to the bigger boats, they "can" have these seaworthy characteristics and have palatial accommodations too, but NOT cheaply!

My advice... Choose carefully for seaworthiness, or sail prudently in very controlled circumstances.

Best of luck, Mark

Indeed...

[kiper204]

I appreciate all the responses We already have an ocean crossing boat, the cat will just be a temporary "play in the islands" boat for a few years. We will only live aboard for about 6 months a year... then either sail home or yank it for a few months and fly home. We are too young to be retired and still have to come back to reality and put a foot back on land. So a bluewater cat isnt necessary .... but we arent the type to e in the ICW if we dont have to be ... if ya know what I mean. As far as room.... you do realize we have been using a Baba 3o for 4 yrs now... just about any cat Im sure has more room than that boat. She is a tank with tons of storage and sails herself (and not very fast) but there isnt much living space and bikes, kayaks and other accessories end up being a daily nuisance. Im looking for average space cost and safety.... it doesnt have to move like lightning, we are never in a hurry, it doesnt have to cross oceans.... just the gulf stream and puddle jumps down some islands.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by kiper204

I dont often come on these forums because of the bad attitudes, and I think in the future I'll stick to doing my own research online. Anyway.....

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment ... Im sure not all cats pound ... and I want to make sure we get one that has a better chance of not pounding. From what Ive been reading its better to have 40ft or better for offshore smoothness.... being a cat owner would you say that is accurate ?

Waterline length is always nice to have. That doesn't neccesarily mean that the boat has to be huge though. There are a few designers who draw boats much longer than an equivalent (in terms of space and accomodation) production boat would be.

Unfortunately few of these designs are production boats, and those that are, are generally expensive.

Others are sure to disagree, but having built my own boat, I'd certainly suggest you consider an owner-built boat. It may not be as nicely finished as a production boat (then again it may be better), but in my experience, build quality is likely to be much better.

I'd certainly be looking for adequate bridgedeck clearance though, if you're that worried about slapping.