Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

[Don C L]

HA HA! Oh I know that waterline will beat me before his anchor leaves the bottom! And his drink won't even be sliding across the deck before I am triple reefed and soaked! I just eye with suspicion a lot of those electronic things that are always breaking down like the blender on the gimbal, or the electric motor that lifts the door in the transom for the dinghy, or the jacuzzi pump... ok sorry I'll stop now. Do I sound jealous?
When I DO get jealous is when the wind pipes up and I just can't keep going to weather like the longer, heavier waterline can! But then again, who sails to weather anyway?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I just eye with suspicion a lot of those electronic things that are always breaking down like the blender on the gimbal, or the electric motor that lifts the door in the transom for the dinghy, or the jacuzzi pump... ok sorry I'll stop now. Do I sound jealous?

No Don, you don't sound jealous. I agree wholeheartedly. You don't need those things on a cruising boat. They are mostly fluff that is destined to break down and detract time away from enjoying a deserted anchorage.

Unfortunately, owners of large boats often feel the need to fit these sort of expensive and ultimately unreliable gizmos. A larger boat is still going to be more comfortable at anchor than a smaller boat (more stable, more water, more electricity, more supplies, more toys (paddleboards etc, not necessarily the bedroom kind ), as well as more space, a larger bed and bench room in the galley etc. The larger boat does not need to be more complex to be more comfortable. The size alone conveys many advantages.

In some ways a larger yacht can be simpler than a smaller alternative and still be functional. For example a large water capacity reduces the need for a water maker, the room to fit more solar reduces the need for a generator. The higher potential passage speeds reduce the need for a feathering prop, spinnaker etc. Unfortunately in practice few yachts follow this tend and larger yachts often become more complex.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

From an experienced yachtsman, this is absurd.

EVERYTHING, from insurance, bottom cleaning, haulouts, lay-days, dockage, etc, plus ALL normal maintenance, like wash-downs, compound and wax, repainting/varnishing, covers, hoses, ...EVERYTHING costs more.

No, replacing one $200 toilet might be the same. But use your head when estimating the difference in operating cost between a small or large yacht. The operating cost difference between a 32' and 48' is staggering.

Forget the want, don't buy anything bigger or more complex than what you need.

[barnakiel]

Nay.

Stuff on big boats is way more expensive than stuff on small boat. The relation is not even linear to LOA. Maybe exponential, I do not know.

Maybe if we think of the cost as a percentage of the boat value, maybe. But in plain vanilla straight dollars equipment on a 60'er can be easily 10 times more expensive than on a 30'er.

We have a sub-30 boat and I work on uber-60 boats.

It is also more expensive to fix anything.

You owe me a lager now.

b.

[Terra Nova]

bar--word.

[Eder]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If you and your wife can handle an Oyster 53 in all conditions you are a better man than I. But I would not ELECT to try it myself even though I could.

This is a silly statement...nothing hard in single handing a large boat that has been built with a short crew in mind.

[Celestialsailor]

...and your boat is?...

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Don C L

A well-equipped modern 53 with roller furling is fairly easily handled by 2 with experience, I grant you. But I, and this is just my old crotchety self, don't trust roller furling 100% since I have had a couple bad experiences with them. I also don't trust electric stuff 100%.

...electric stuff like winches. I grant I say silly things, but I just look up at really big sails and think, now what could go wrong? Too paranoid probably.

[Eder]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

...and your boat is?...

If directed at me I sail a IP 460

[double u]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Wrong again Einstein,

The total cost to antifoul my boat: 200 euros plus three hours of my time.

Bottom cleaning: Free takes 1/2 of my time.

Polish and wax my boat: 20 euros for the top paste wax + 6 hours of my time.

Varnishing: What's varnishing? Total cost: Zero

Repainting: What's that? Nothing needs to be painted. Cost: Zero.

Dockage: What's that? Total cost last season 400 euros.


Do you actually hire someone to do everything on your boat? Most of the people I know and hang out with do the lions share of the work themselves.

muhaha!
antifoulingcosts go up with the square of the length (area, remember?) hauloutcosts...
scraping the bottom @ anchor with fins & snorkel is a fine job on a 40footer, on a 53footer (remember: 77% more area if proportions of boats are the same) it becomes a chore (except of course for superhumans like you that sail their 53 footers regularly & with pleasure in & out of marinas...)
in fact all the jobs you mention are surface-related & this goes up by the square of the length

[double u]

Originally Posted by double u

the bigger the budget-the bigger the boat, big (say 48-50')
if
1. you can afford to buy the very best equipment & have it installed by the very best
2. have everything in double (minimum) - go for extreme redundancy
3. have everything neurotically maintained & thrown out & replaced regularly or at the first suspicion
4. are able to at least do some repairs/jury rigs yourself (faults still might develop in out-of-the-way-places...)
5. you don't mind all these technicians crawling all over the boat at every stop

because: on a boat this size you will be absolutely utterly dependent upon a LOT of electric/electronic machinery: a disfunctional anchorwindlass will mean a nonstop trip to the next place where it can be repaired...

...silly me!!! I should have written that
mediocre equipment installed by mediocre technichians, kept until it breaks down & then repaired by the average 50'-boat-owner (who by always have been a "handyman" made all those $$$ to pay for the 53 footer...) will absolutely do, as it will be perfectly fine to haul a 100lbs or so anchor on 1/2" chain from 50 feet of water by hand if the windlass happens to break down...
that it will be just as perfectly easy to fix an electronic autopilot on a 50 footer as a windvane on a 38 footer, or that setting sails with manual winches will be just as quick and easy on the 53footer as on the 38'boat, etc. etc. -
I should have known...!
I should have known - after 3 circumnavigations, the first on a boat I built myself
after 14 years of bluewater cruising
after 3 years as basemanager on a base with 32 charterboats of up to 52 feet
after seeing uncounted fellow-yachties (o so many unfortunately with little technical interest & less aptitude...) spend their "time-in-paradise" with repairs, chasing spares and/or technicians to fix things, missing out on many superb anchorages because some breakdown or other forced them to sail straight for the next "big place" to get the spares/whatever
...& I should probably have known that my - I consider not totally un-informed - opinion will not encounter reasonable arguments but "argumenta ad hominem"....I should have known...

[Kenomac]

Apparently, some of you guys that want/need to spread wrong information in order to draw prospective boat buyers back to the smaller boat sizes like "double u," just don't shop around for the best deals.

Just because a larger boat will break down occasionally just like a smaller boat, doesn't mean you should buy the smaller boat. When either boat is broken, it's just as broke and needs to be repaired. Then it's up to the individual to find the best option on how to do it.

When my engine impeller was badly degraded last summer and needed fixing (I didn't have a Yanmar impeller puller onboard) I pulled into a shipyard after asking around, and they charged me only 19 euros for the repair with me supplying the impeller. The size of the boat didn't matter, it would have cost the same for a 25ft boat or maybe more if it was more difficult to access.

In San Francisco 6 years ago, it cost $1800 to have a shipyard antifoul our Hunter 450 (one coat & two on the waterline) and I'm sure it would cost more to have the same work done in the same location on our Oyster 53. But that's irrelevant, since boats can move around and don't need to have work done in the same location. Right now I'm in Sardinia where it only costs me 200 euros and three hours of my time to do the same job on a 53ft boat.

Maybe sometimes it pays to be a smart shopper and look for the best deals and do some of the work myself.

Like Sailorboy, I couldn't care less what other people choose to buy for a boat, It's just when some feel the need to broadcast garbage information trying to persuade people to who intend to buy a larger boat, that somehow their costs will be astonomically more than with a boat half the size, that I feel I must respond. Having owed and maintained a 20' sailboat, a 45ft sailboat and now a 53ft sailboat.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by double u

...silly me!!! I should have written that
mediocre equipment installed by mediocre technichians, kept until it breaks down & then repaired by the average 50'-boat-owner (who by always have been a "handyman" made all those $$$ to pay for the 53 footer...) will absolutely do, as it will be perfectly fine to haul a 100lbs or so anchor on 1/2" chain from 50 feet of water by hand if the windlass happens to break down...
that it will be just as perfectly easy to fix an electronic autopilot on a 50 footer as a windvane on a 38 footer, or that setting sails with manual winches will be just as quick and easy on the 53footer as on the 38'boat, etc. etc. -
I should have known...!
I should have known - after 3 circumnavigations, the first on a boat I built myself
after 14 years of bluewater cruising
after 3 years as basemanager on a base with 32 charterboats of up to 52 feet
after seeing uncounted fellow-yachties (o so many unfortunately with little technical interest & less aptitude...) spend their "time-in-paradise" with repairs, chasing spares and/or technicians to fix things, missing out on many superb anchorages because some breakdown or other forced them to sail straight for the next "big place" to get the spares/whatever
...& I should probably have known that my - I consider not totally un-informed - opinion will not encounter reasonable arguments but "argumenta ad hominem"....I should have known...

What are you trying to say? None of your ramblings make any sense, you have no idea of my personal abilities or the quality people I've employed to do work on our boat.

Now that this thread has degraded down to posting nonsense like above, I think it's time for me to exit having already offered up what I can to the OP. See you on another thread.

Ciao,

Ken

[double u]

easy kenomac, easy!
I just try to convey my conviction that the bigger & more complex a boat is (& sure, worst of both worlds is a small komplex boat) the more it's gonna cost...& LOTS more...
but it could also be the case of "who is not of your opinion posts nonsense"...
bigger is better - no doubt (up to a certain degree...)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by double u

...after seeing uncounted fellow-yachties (o so many unfortunately with little technical interest & less aptitude...) spend their "time-in-paradise" with repairs, chasing spares and/or technicians to fix things, missing out on many superb anchorages because some breakdown or other forced them to sail straight for the next "big place" to get the spares/whatever...

That's a pretty standard situation for long distance cruisers. Goes with the territory. We do call cruising "boat repair in exotic places", don't we? I never noticed that it happens more often to people in bigger boats. It happens to everyone except maybe Pardeys-type ultra minimalists. It happens more often to poorly maintained boats, not necessarily bigger ones, and maybe not even to more complex ones.

Boats break. That's kind of what they do.

Very intense maintenance, good inventory of spares, good inventory of tools, complete set of manuals, and good mechanical aptitude (or a professional crewman with that) -- are the only sure antidotes.