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Old 04-06-2016, 04:42   #226
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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Let's not judge even such people. Everyone has a different path in life, and all different reasons for being where they are.
......

Who knows what's the story with that middle aged guy, who asked you for some tips?
Who is judging other people? I made a broad and largely true statement that it is extremely rare ( I use the world no one) for someone with no experience very late in life to buy a big boat and go sailing around the world.

In the case you cited... the man's accomplishment seems quite remarkable. You didn't explain how much "training" he had before he sailed off... or any details except he had a cancer death sentence and he wanted to knock of something on his bucket list.... which he could afford.
Aside from putting his wife's life in jeopardy why not? If you consider that a "judgment"... so be it. It worked out well for this man. Excellent. I don't think this is necessarily a benchmark for other old people.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:15   #227
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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Who is judging other people? I made a broad and largely true statement that it is extremely rare ( I use the world no one) for someone with no experience very late in life to buy a big boat and go sailing around the world.

In the case you cited... the man's accomplishment seems quite remarkable. You didn't explain how much "training" he had before he sailed off... or any details except he had a cancer death sentence and he wanted to knock of something on his bucket list.... which he could afford.
Aside from putting his wife's life in jeopardy why not? If you consider that a "judgment"... so be it. It worked out well for this man. Excellent. I don't think this is necessarily a benchmark for other old people.
I was not accusing anyone of anything, including judging. Just making conversation and recommending tolerance and open mindedness.

There is a tendency among many of us -- and again I'm not pointing any finger at you or anyone else in particular -- to look down at people who go off cruising in big boats without "paying their dues" by working their way up from dinghies in their youths, to small keel boats, to small cruising boats, etc. I was just expressing an opinion that people come to sailing in all kinds of different ways, and we shouldn't be snobbish about it.

People do buy boats, even big boats, even very big boats, the day after their retirement, for example, with no prior sailing experience, and just head off. Sometimes quite clueless. Most of them learn on the job and do fine after variable numbers of misadventures. Some of them turn into Captain Calamities, but as far as I can tell, surprisingly few.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:43   #228
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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A little off topic, but for those folks cruising in places with questionable water and you don't have a water maker, I highly recommend this filter. Super strong and reliable, used it for years on commercial river trips with large groups of folks.
https://www.katadyn.com/us/us/257-80...dyn-expedition
An Imperial Berkey is about 1/5th the price, including a full load of filters (when on - frequent - offer). It'll do about 50 gallons an hour if I remember right.

As for catching rainwater, the first 'flow' catches all the dust, pollen, molds, spores, and bacteria, etc., cleaning them out of the air.

So the classic, simple solution, was to let it rain for 10 minutes, before starting to collect it.

If still in doubt, run it through a Berkey (smaller ones are cheaper) before putting it in the tanks.
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Old 04-06-2016, 14:44   #229
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

Hello all -

After my first week in Europe I've had a chance to check in... holy crap, what did I do!!! My first ever thread has been nothing short of amazing... positive and negative.

Positive: I'm extremely grateful for the great accumulated wisdom and experience one can tap into in this forum, and I thank everyone for taking the time to post replies. I am seriously looking forward to becoming an avid reader (and, hopefully, contributor) in this forum, notwithstanding some noise here and there.

Negative: Holy **** storm!!! I was apparently mistaken, thinking that cruisers are a very mellow bunch of kindred spirits - I'm so sorry that my seemingly simple question brought out quite a bit of opinionated aggressiveness, to say the least. Let's all have a few drinks instead, pretty please!!!

Some thread realignment, perhaps: Remember that little me, so-called "OP" here, didn't ask what size boat might be right for me. I'm quite sure that a wide-bodied low to mid-40s is *my* personal sweet spot for sufficient space vs. barely manageable costs and all other sorts of potential manageability concerns. My request was for feedback regarding things (sailing and equipment challenges) to watch out for in *my* personal sweet spot...

To clarify... nothing is set in stone yet, but the standard "Sailing La Vagabonde" itinerary is about what I've had in mind. A summer in Europe, an Atlantic passage via the Canaries and/or Cape Verde, a winter of storm dodging in the Caribbean, a Panama Canal passage to the Galapagos and on to the South Pacific, and everything frequently interrupted as desired every half year or so by a few months of land-lubbering (a.k.a. making mama happy with my presence). Basically, not the east coaster cruising (the snowbird shuttle back and forth to the Caribbean), but not hardcore 10-years-every-single-day-away-from-marinas liveaboard either. Also, I'm fairly handy and I enjoy fixing things by myself but I'm humble enough to ask (and pay) someone for help if and when prudent.

Hope this helps. Thanks again to all of you for sharing your time and experience here.

Cheers, Matthias

P.S. This post comes to you from Ajaccio, Corsica. I've been marina ogling every single day in the Med, and after Monaco, Antibes and St. Tropez things are getting somewhat more realistic now. Hopping over on a weekly basis to Sardinia, Sicily and Croatia now - beep me if you're somewhere near in June and I'd love to buy you a drink or two!

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Old 04-06-2016, 16:05   #230
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

Matthias,

Im in Olbia, Sardinia. PM me if you'll be in the area. I'll be close by for the next three weeks, maybe even up into Southern Corsica.

Ken
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Old 04-06-2016, 19:42   #231
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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I was not accusing anyone of anything, including judging. Just making conversation and recommending tolerance and open mindedness.

There is a tendency among many of us -- and again I'm not pointing any finger at you or anyone else in particular -- to look down at people who go off cruising in big boats without "paying their dues" by working their way up from dinghies in their youths, to small keel boats, to small cruising boats, etc. I was just expressing an opinion that people come to sailing in all kinds of different ways, and we shouldn't be snobbish about it.

People do buy boats, even big boats, even very big boats, the day after their retirement, for example, with no prior sailing experience, and just head off. Sometimes quite clueless. Most of them learn on the job and do fine after variable numbers of misadventures. Some of them turn into Captain Calamities, but as far as I can tell, surprisingly few.
I don't think you have to start with a dinghy and work your way up. I certainly didn't. After a sail with my best friend on his 31' boat he asked me a few months later to be partners on a 48'. At the time I hadn't even taken a learn to sail class, nor read a book. He was going to teach me... and so I enrolled in a learn to sail... bought about 20 books and fully embraced the idea... not of sailing off alone however.

His GF didn't want to share and so he backed out of the deal... and I was left high and dry and so began to look for a "starter" boat. I asked the broker and he told me he had a new 36 and the price was fine so I owned a 36' boat after a three day sailing course. I got my buddy to help me and sail with me a lot the rest of the summer... I closed in August. I went into a very intensive sailing and fitting out upgrade by myself with the goal to take the boat to the Caribbean. It took me 5 years and to test myself and the boat entered the Marion Bermuda race. I don't care for racing but I thought this was a prudent approach to do offshore. We had a terrible storm... but the boat and I did fine and I was ready to take off.

I can't conceive of me buying a much bigger boat and jumping on it and sailing off into the ocean on a round the world... just like that. It seems terribly imprudent and who knows what bad outcomes can ensue. I suppose if I wanted to blow more cash... and worry about making a living when I returned in midlife I suppose I could. So maybe with more money I could have done a bigger boat... but nothing in the 50s or above.

So I went in middle age on a "smallish" but comfortable boat and still have it and sail as much as I can.... doing occasional deliveries and so forth. I don't think moving to the boat full time is going to happen now... as I thought it would... because of the grand children.
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Old 04-06-2016, 20:12   #232
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

The shortest one to get the job done.
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:36   #233
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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Negative: Holy **** storm!!! I was apparently mistaken, thinking that cruisers are a very mellow bunch of kindred spirits - I'm so sorry that my seemingly simple question brought out quite a bit of opinionated aggressiveness, to say the least. Let's all have a few drinks instead, pretty please!!!
LOL that's just normal stuff for here.

Try starting threads asking any of the following and watch the feathers fly
Which anchor
Bluewater Boat
Roller v Slab reefing
Mono v multi
Fin v full keel
and many more...

Even better, combine as many of them into a single thread.
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:50   #234
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

Already biting my tongue, hoppy... some of these are of quite natural interest to a newbie here!

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Old 05-06-2016, 01:55   #235
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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As a creature of comfort, I think bigger is better. Living aboard by myself or as a couple on a 43-48 foot boat with plenty of amenities and storage beats being cramped on a 34-38 foot boat, in my opinion. I'd also like to think that the boat handles a bit smoother in rough seas than a smaller one. It also seems more practical for necessary and unnecessary add-ons and toys, such as space for solar panels, storage of life raft, etc.

Thanks a lot,
Matthias
Matthias,

A refreshing return to a couple of your original questions before the thread became somewhat hyjacked by the well-meaning go now, go as small as me crowd.

A couple of people have already eluded to a couple of primary "add-ons" and conveniences that make the cruising life really quite nice. Look for a boat that either already has these or the items can easily be installed with space allowing:

1. Watermaker. A HUGE and not that expensive an item. Get one that makes at least 17 gallons per hour.

2. Seriously look into Lithium batteries instead of yesterdays solar technology as it relates to boats. I came extremely close to adding solar just a week ago, and was so glad I was delayed. With a proper lithium battery set up, the need for solar becomes totally obsolete. Forget the "save the planet" feel good about yourself nonesense, the lithium set up will actually use less energy. Even if you intend to spend copious time in anchorages, with the proper alternator or better yet a generator, you may only need to run either for a short time each day since the batteries charge so quickly.

3. Washing machine. Of course you'll need the watermaker first unless you spend a moderate amount of time in marinas. After only six months, you'll be dollars ahead over those not having one. And life will be so much more pleasant with clean clothes in only 40 minutes without wasting time wondering through a strange town carrying your laundry, asking the locals... "Hola'. Donde esta la laudrymat?"

4. Macerating heads. Manual heads can easily be converted. No hand pumping, no clogs, no waste management.... Need I say more?

5. A hot water system which allows you and anyone aboard to take a daily shower. Heaven on earth, and also important if you decide you like scuba or snorkeling. The ability to wash down wetsuits.

6. A quality dinghy with enough horsepower to tow or push the mothership if and when it becomes necessary. Also.... It's your major means of transportation to get to and from the boat in all types of weather and waves. It's not always calm in anchorages.

Don't skimp, do things right and you'll have a great time.
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Old 05-06-2016, 02:03   #236
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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Already biting my tongue, hoppy... some of these are of quite natural interest to a newbie here!

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BTW don't forget Greece, lots of boats for sale here as well.

FYI

Which anchor Rocna or Rocna Vulcan
Bluewater Boat You seem to already have the right idea for the kind of cruise you are planning
Roller v Slab reefing whatever catched your fancy, both will work
Mono v multi Mono's rule, cruising condcats are for people with spouses that don't like sailing. I conceed perfomance multis could be fun
Fin v full keel full is for old pharts traped in the 1950's or earlier. They are so scared that the keel will fall off I wonder how they ever brave leaving the safety of their bed
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:30   #237
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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2. Seriously look into Lithium batteries instead of yesterdays solar technology as it relates to boats. I came extremely close to adding solar just a week ago, and was so glad I was delayed. With a proper lithium battery set up, the need for solar becomes totally obsolete. Forget the "save the planet" feel good about yourself nonesense, the lithium set up will actually use less energy. Even if you intend to spend copious time in anchorages, with the proper alternator or better yet a generator, you may only need to run either for a short time each day since the batteries charge so quickly.
Lithium batteries don't negate solar. They still need charging and I would sooner listen to solar than any engine.

Lithium (LiFePo4) have several advantages - more usable capacity and faster charging for example. But one of their biggest advantages is not having to fully charge them often like lead acid batteries. Undercharging and the sulfation it leads to is the main cause of premature lead acid battery death.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:56   #238
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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Lithium batteries don't negate solar. They still need charging and I would sooner listen to solar than any engine.

Lithium (LiFePo4) have several advantages - more usable capacity and faster charging for example. But one of their biggest advantages is not having to fully charge them often like lead acid batteries. Undercharging and the sulfation it leads to is the main cause of premature lead acid battery death.
A week ago I would have agreed with you, but if the OP or anyone else requires the power consumption of a fridge/deep freezer, watermaker, hot water and microwave or any other electric cooking, they're going to need to run the generator or motor everyday for at least an hour to charge up a lead acid battery bank then let solar do the rest. Well with Lithium, you run the engine or generator for the same one hour period, then the batteries are fully charged and holding a more massive amount of usable power at the same time. With lead acid, I can't even use 50% of the capacity without risking damage... Not the case with lithium.

So basically on a boat equipped with lithium batteries, there's no need for solar. Some might suggest "what if the generator fails?" Well, we had our generator fail us last season for a few days while I hunted down a new impeller.... We simply charged off the engine alternator. With a large charger, one can put a massive amout of amps into lithium batteries in a relatively short period of time.

That's why I like this forum; I was discussing anchors with a fellow and polishing a boat with another....and ended up learning all about lithium batteries from both. Free exchange of ideas.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:45   #239
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

I'd like to raise the issue of the gorgeous CL fore/aft double bed... usually after in the plan. Totally comfy at anchor when not underway on passage in heeled 15°. Do these berths not get used for sleeping and the sleeping done in a lee bun or settee?

My experience has been to sleep in the main saloon lee side on the settee... not the aft cabin.

I notice that many modern designs seem to have plush built in chair / seating arrangements and no settee on both sides.

Any comments from those with CL double beds?

++++

Energy... My experience with wet cells, gel cells, AGMs with solar... has been that AGMs are the better of these three. Wet cell maintenance is a PITA and can get acid where you don't want it. NO NO NO. Maintenance free is the way to go.

Your electric use needs to match your charging capabilities. My experience with the equipment I have calls for use of the engine about 1.5 - 2hrs per day. The high output alt with smart charger... returns most of the used amps. The solar can run the boat on passage AP and instruments and lighting but without refer (engine drive compressor) and no hot water produced. Running the engine the minimum time seems to work with cruising... anchoring, moving in and out of the anchorage... so motor sailing in light air... and motoring when there is no wind. Engine noise (and wear) is a down side. My volvo is going on 32 years and works a charm... so whatever abuse I have given it.... it's not crapped out yet. Generators are very noisy.... in my experience as they are usually on deck portable types. Below decks would create the same level of noise that the main diesel would I assume... but not put wear and tear on the engine. A 12v refer systems would make sense with a genset. Smaller boats would likely use the inconvenient and noisy portable gen sets which probably use gasoline.... more fuel to store and haul.

As electrical systems improve.... the best practice choices are changing and getting more affordable and compact.
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Old 05-06-2016, 09:20   #240
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Re: Monohull sailboat size for shorthanded cruising

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...........As electrical systems improve.... the best practice choices are changing and getting more affordable and compact.
As I learned earlier this week.
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