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Old 25-06-2012, 06:11   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

Mmmm... I'm always puzzled when people make some statement to that effect, because it's not how I experience it.

I guess it depends on one's subjective view of what constitutes "comfort".
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!
When I am talking fast I am not talking 10 knots. Think Volvo Open Racing.

Not my idea of comfort.

And sometimes (not throwing a rock at you) a generalization is just that. A generalization. Everyone has exceptions to prove the rule.
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Old 25-06-2012, 07:17   #47
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
But monohull sailors don't typically choose poorly performing monhulls on purpose.
On the contrary, a very large percentage of cruising people do choose just that way. If they didn't, the anchorages would not be full of Out Islands, Formosas, Island Traders, Whitby's, home built Ferro's, etc.

And a large percentage of cruising people chose the same way with multis.

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Old 25-06-2012, 09:47   #48
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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It seems your recurring theme is - Can I make a monohull design that sails as poorly as a Catamaran.
The opposite - my theme is "can I build a monohull with similar keel depth, top deck features, and interior volume which would sail BETTER than a catamaran"

And I think the answer is "no".

Each response I've seen contrary to this has missed the "similar keel depth" and "top deck features" portions. They continue to compare low-decked deep-keeled boats to high-decked shallow keeled boats, like a lagoon.

There are deep keeled low-decked catamarans, which could be compared - and such a boat would sail very well - possibly better than the monohull, owing to the lack of 4 tons of underwater ballast.

However, there are no monohulls with 3-4' draft in a cruising size, which is confusing the argument. Such a boat would clearly point far worse than any catamaran, and in fact would probably capsize immediately.
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Old 25-06-2012, 09:55   #49
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

Here is where I'm seeing inherent superiority in the monohull design:
1) In smaller boats, the hulls of a catamaran would become to narrow to be practical for liveaboard use - thus the monohull has a clear advantage in the smaller sizes

2) The monohull is self righting in a capsize situation. However, this is offset by it's higher propensity to sinking. It's not completely clear to me if this is a meaningful benefit, especially given the low capsize rate of cruising-class catamarans

3) The monohull has a narrower beam - a distinct benefit in a world designed for monohulled boats. However, this is somewhat artificial, and a benefit that would vanish in a world where most large slips are designed for cats, and cruising monohulls will be penalized for being "too long", being consigned only to the end-slips where they will take little channel width and benefit from the double-length dockage.

4) The monohull has a different stability factor that leads to a question of personal preference. However, in the cruising class, I suspect that the majority of "cruisers" will prefer the flat characteristic of a larger catamaran to the rolling and broaching motion of a very large monohull.
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Old 25-06-2012, 10:06   #50
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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However, there are no monohulls with 3-4' draft in a cruising size, which is confusing the argument. Such a boat would clearly point far worse than any catamaran, and in fact would probably capsize immediately.
Hm you would have to include mono's with variable draft,ovni has been mentioned,these are quite expensive however.If you look at a pogo 12.50 however..it will wipe the ace of your lagoon 410(whether you're down or upwind) and it can lift it's keel has got a lot of deckspace and a lot cheaper.

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Old 25-06-2012, 10:38   #51
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Hm you would have to include mono's with variable draft,ovni has been mentioned,these are quite expensive however.If you look at a pogo 12.50 however..it will wipe the ace of your lagoon 410(whether you're down or upwind) and it can lift it's keel has got a lot of deckspace and a lot cheaper.

Cheers,
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Unfortunately a lagoon is not available with a swing keel, but some catamarans are.

I'll look up the Pogo, though. If it has a large topdeck saloon and comfortable deck space I'm interested.
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Old 25-06-2012, 10:44   #52
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

I think the better comparison would be a mono with 4 double cabins, large galley, at least two heads, and a large stateroom. That would likely be a 60 foot mono and beat the 40 ft cat on most points of sail!
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Old 25-06-2012, 10:49   #53
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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I think the better comparison would be a mono with 4 double cabins, large galley, at least two heads, and a large stateroom. That would likely be a 60 foot mono and beat the 40 ft cat on most points of sail!
With comparable keel depth, sail plan, and topdeck features? Would it still beat the cat?
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Old 25-06-2012, 11:04   #54
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Originally Posted by JJ77 View Post
Hm you would have to include mono's with variable draft,ovni has been mentioned,these are quite expensive however.If you look at a pogo 12.50 however..it will wipe the ace of your lagoon 410(whether you're down or upwind) and it can lift it's keel has got a lot of deckspace and a lot cheaper.

Cheers,
JJ
Looks great in the photos! The saloon is not on the topdeck, and we don't know it's actual sail performance, but it looks like a nice boat with shallow draft and lots of interior volume - hard to tell for sure with the fisheye lens.

At only 12M, it's on the edge of that length where a comparable catamaran (i.e. 8M) has very narrow hulls.
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Old 25-06-2012, 11:05   #55
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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With comparable keel depth, sail plan, and topdeck features? Would it still beat the cat?
you're trying to compare apples and oranges.. and my pallet is faster than your tree stump..
you're trying to outfit a a mono to the likes of a cat and then say the cat is faster and points beter..
Its not going to happen.. thats just like saying that the 42 foot cat would'nt be as fast off the wind if you took away one of its hulls and put a 7 foot deep keel on it..
You are trying to justify the downsides of a Multi hull..
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Old 25-06-2012, 11:20   #56
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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you're trying to compare apples and oranges.. and my pallet is faster than your tree stump..
you're trying to outfit a a mono to the likes of a cat and then say the cat is faster and points beter..
Its not going to happen.. thats just like saying that the 42 foot cat would'nt be as fast off the wind if you took away one of its hulls and put a 7 foot deep keel on it..
You are trying to justify the downsides of a Multi hull..
And widened the beam to accomodate the saloon/pilot house, and added an 8,000 pound weight to the keel.

I'm not aware of any downsides to a multi-hull, so I have no need to justify them.
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Old 25-06-2012, 11:27   #57
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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I'm not aware of any downsides to a multi-hull, so I have no need to justify them.
Good, your transition has been completed... welcome! Now you have to choose Lagoon... or may be FP with the break away keels? No matter which one you choose, there is a community waiting for you here on CF where you can share your experience of the perfect boat!


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Old 25-06-2012, 11:30   #58
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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And widened the beam to accomodate the saloon/pilot house, and added an 8,000 pound weight to the keel.

I'm not aware of any downsides to a multi-hull, so I have no need to justify them.
If, in your mind there are no down sides, then you have no need to compare them to a mono-hull, in speed, pointing angle, or comfort..
But trying to convince others of your ideas are not going to get you anywhere..
I for one cant stand them, but those are my reasons, and shouldnt have any reflection on your future plans..
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Old 25-06-2012, 11:41   #59
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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3) The monohull has a narrower beam - a distinct benefit in a world designed for monohulled boats. However, this is somewhat artificial, and a benefit that would vanish in a world where most large slips are designed for cats, and cruising monohulls will be penalized for being "too long", being consigned only to the end-slips where they will take little channel width and benefit from the double-length dockage.

Got a little giggle with that.

Not for long while though.

My vote for you is a Maverick. Once you sail a cat, with all it's "bad" qualities, you don't want to go back. Especially the wimmin.

Remember, 90% is at anchor. So what need for racing performance is there really.

Oh yea. That is one reason I bought a Gemini. For it's size (not many to choose from) it was fast. While I had it only a few years I was passed by only a few 40+ ft boats. One small one beat me........but then I saw he had a motor running.

If you need that feeling then be careful what you buy. You may get a 40+ mono and get passed by me in my next Gem.
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Old 25-06-2012, 12:16   #60
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

As someone mentioned prior...

To make a fair comparison in both price and berth accomodations, a 40-45 foot production multihull is like a 55 foot production monohull.

Now, you have to decide which you want:
a. speed (especially upwind) and payload capability?
b. shoal draft and no heeling?




(The above comparison is considering boats in the Lagoon, Leopard, Beneteau, Jeanneau, Catalina realm- so obviously if you want to talk Morris, Gunboat, Southerly, or Atlantic- then you can buy whatever compromise you want!)
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