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Old 28-06-2012, 20:53   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM

Hi Dave, sorry to have misinterpreted your meaning. Lagoons have been my main focus. I've viewed a number of models, and am currently seeking possible alternatives. However, the lagoons repeatedly appear the most favorable to me, due to their shallow draft, top deck features, and excellent performance.

However, I'm put off by the high prices and extreme uniformity in their decor and styling.

I have several threads with few or no responses which are specifically seeking guidance and feedback on lagoon boats, as well as the ubiquitous "Lagoon Fetish part 1"thread which was incorrectly moved into the Lagoon forum from the multi_hulls forum, and this one which was not intended to be about me, my needs, or about Lagoons.


Excellent performance? Are these the same Lagoons I have sailed in charter in BVI? Adequate, yes, as a bus is an adequate vehicle to drive....
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Old 28-06-2012, 20:56   #227
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

I mean you are free to keep going, but give us the chance to have a break!! Nahh just kidding!!
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Old 28-06-2012, 21:01   #228
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Originally Posted by malbert73 View Post
Excellent performance? Are these the same Lagoons I have sailed in charter in BVI? Adequate, yes, as a bus is an adequate vehicle to drive....
And which model of bus do you feel has better performance and comfort than the other buses?

Or, if you prefer, would you mind sharing some objective information about the model you chartered, and it's performance characteristics compared to other catamarans?
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Old 28-06-2012, 21:04   #229
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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I mean you are free to keep going, but give us the chance to have a break!! Nahh just kidding!!
For you, I posted a very nice troll about why I think it is better to buy an ex-charter boat than to buy one from an owner. I hope you enjoy that one better!

I'm afraid that forum won't get the traffic this one gets, though.
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Old 28-06-2012, 21:58   #230
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

Art I have seen people cruise in vast variety of ( sometimes to my mind unsuitable) craft and have the time of lives. In some cases the vessel suited their type of lifestyle, but even when it did not, they frequently cope with the limitations and get on and enjoy themselves. In many ways the type of yacht is not very important.

The thing all these successful crusers have is a love of sailing or at least being out on the water. Some also have a love of boats, and a joy in tinkering with them.

I may be misinterpreting your posts, there is a good deal of humour and some posts are obviously very tongue in cheek. However I left with the impression you and your wife do not share the above sort of feelings.

If I remember correctly you owned a 30 + foot monohull and rarely used it. Your description in post 200 suggests to me that you and your wife were unhappy in the sort of conditions that are very common sailing no matter what kind of vessel.

Travel and exploring new places is all part of fun, but there are other ways to do this. I met someone recently who was still uncomfortable sailing and anchoring after a few years and would dearly love to swap his yacht for an RV. His wife felt the opposite.

Rather than worrying about the type of vessel I would first decide if the crusing lifestyle is for you. I would invest some money in chartering. It does not completely duplicate the crusing lifestyle, but I think some longer charters in some of the more challenging crusing grounds would answer some of the questions.

As a side befefit it would also give you a better perspective on the type of boat that is best. Some of your comments about the pros and cons of different boats are a little naive and some more experience will ensure you get the right yacht (if a yacht is the right answer to travel dreams)
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Old 28-06-2012, 22:27   #231
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

Horses for courses. First choose your desired course, then find your preferred horse for that course.

If you plan on mostly hauling lumber, then don't set off in a Ferrari. If you plan on mostly racing, then don't set off in a Winnebago. For most folks, a sedan(mono) or suv (multi) will work equally well for their proposed courses.
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Old 28-06-2012, 22:31   #232
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

This thread has strayed far afield, and has become really about me more than anything - making me think I should merely have started a thread called "All about Art, and nothing to do with boats".

My wife has a clear love of the water, and of boats, and does not like the pitching, spraying, bucking, and blowing that you get on a sailboat. She also does not like cold weather (to a Caribbean princess like her, "cold" means below 83 F). She is also an avid scuba diver, and shows no resistance whatsoever to the idea of SCUBA diving every day - I don't know if I could dive that much!

I have a love of freedom, of travel, and of the Mediterranean sea in particular.

I was quite comfortable on my 34' sailboat for the few weeks that I had it, prior to the arrival of Katrina. I slept every night, and tinkered every day, and was greatly looking forward to the next 18 months of it. It wasn't cruising, but I was just a short motor from Lake Pontchartrain and was looking forward to many evening sails, and a few long weekend sails as well when I could make the time.

We share in common a love of the Mediterranean - both of the sea and the culture.

I lived for several years in an RV with a complete family - in fact in several RV's at different times and for different durations. At one time I considered writing a book on this topic. I'm well aware of the many possible sizes and configurations of this kind of living arrangement, and the tradeoffs made.

However, RV's are not of interest to my Princess, partly because she is a Princess, and partly because she simply does not feel an love or connection to "nature" as she calls it, meaning the mountains and plains. She doesn't hear voices in the trees or feel the ages of the mountains. She does love to play with the fishes and I'm sure she will learn to talk to the dolphins, given the chance - probably sooner than I will learn to speak Spanish!

I feel that chartering is an extremely expensive and ineffective way to experience cruising lifestyle. I also don't feel a need to find out if it is for me ... perhaps the above biography will give you some additional perspective on that matter. I am working out a plan to invest in the purchase of a boat that will give me experience, but without the so-called "investment" of renting someone else's boat. I cannot fully explain why this is so on this forum, but if you have any experience with US tax law you may understand.

I only wish there were some controversy about which type of boat would be best. Sadly, it's only too clear that the answer is "Lagoon" - far beyond my budget (as if such a thing were defined), far more boat than I really need or really care for, but otherwise absolutely perfect for my situation.

I started by taking my wife to view some 1990's circa monohulls, like the one I left behind in New Orleans. It only took an hour or two to see the flaws in that plan - flaws which have been reiterated by many couples on these forums. To put it succinctly
"If I want to sail alone, I'll cruise in a monohull (around 25-30k)"
"If I want to sail with a woman, I'll choose a catamaran (around 250-300k)"

As I said, and have demonstrated, I dearly wish I had more alternatives but this is the fact of the matter.
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Old 28-06-2012, 22:52   #233
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

That sounds a lot more promising, particularly your wife's love of the water. Hopefully I was completely off base and you will love cruising as much as I do.
The only thing that worried me was this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
My wife has a clear love of the water, and of boats, and does not like the pitching, spraying, bucking, and blowing that you get on a sailboat.
.
Most people get used to the boats motion, but don't fool yourself that a cat is immune from these problems. I have done cruises in cats over 50 feet long and they still pitch, spray and buck.

Just last night I had dinner on my frends Lagoon 410 and he was pointing out how the rear sideboard jumped up to six inches in the air as the bridgdeck flexed when hit from a wave underneath.
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Old 28-06-2012, 22:59   #234
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
That sounds a lot more promising, particularly your wife's love of the water. Hopefully I was completely off base and you will love cruising as much as I do.
The only thing that worried me was this.



Most people get used to the boats motion, but don't fool yourself that a cat is immune from these problems. I have done some long cruises in cats lver 50 long and they still pitch, spray and buck.

Just last night I had dinner on my frends Lagoon 410 and he was pointing out how the rear sideboard jumped up to six inches in the air as the bridgdeck flexed when hit from a wave underneath.
But what it does have is a large, comfortable, and enclosed top deck with a full view of the horizon perfectly placed amidships where the bucking and pitching will be the least, and spray will merely be a pleasant light and sound show on the front windows.

On warm, sunny days she will be sitting on the front tramp enjoying the spray and laughing at the dog when he tries to catch the flying fishes that land on the bridgedeck.

To her, indoors is for "winter", and I made a bold promise to her several years ago - a never-ending summer that would last the rest of our lives together. She won't spend much time inside that saloon, but when it is "winter" (below 80 degrees), she'll be warm and comfortable watching the horizon and manning the autohelm while I work or sleep or whatever it is I'll be doing on those days.
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Old 28-06-2012, 23:38   #235
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
This thread has strayed far afield, and has become really about me more than anything - making me think I should merely have started a thread called "All about Art, and nothing to do with boats".

My wife has a clear love of the water, and of boats, and does not like the pitching, spraying, bucking, and blowing that you get on a sailboat. She also does not like cold weather (to a Caribbean princess like her, "cold" means below 83 F). She is also an avid scuba diver, and shows no resistance whatsoever to the idea of SCUBA diving every day - I don't know if I could dive that much!

I have a love of freedom, of travel, and of the Mediterranean sea in particular.

I was quite comfortable on my 34' sailboat for the few weeks that I had it, prior to the arrival of Katrina. I slept every night, and tinkered every day, and was greatly looking forward to the next 18 months of it. It wasn't cruising, but I was just a short motor from Lake Pontchartrain and was looking forward to many evening sails, and a few long weekend sails as well when I could make the time.

We share in common a love of the Mediterranean - both of the sea and the culture.

I lived for several years in an RV with a complete family - in fact in several RV's at different times and for different durations. At one time I considered writing a book on this topic. I'm well aware of the many possible sizes and configurations of this kind of living arrangement, and the tradeoffs made.

However, RV's are not of interest to my Princess, partly because she is a Princess, and partly because she simply does not feel an love or connection to "nature" as she calls it, meaning the mountains and plains. She doesn't hear voices in the trees or feel the ages of the mountains. She does love to play with the fishes and I'm sure she will learn to talk to the dolphins, given the chance - probably sooner than I will learn to speak Spanish!

I feel that chartering is an extremely expensive and ineffective way to experience cruising lifestyle. I also don't feel a need to find out if it is for me ... perhaps the above biography will give you some additional perspective on that matter. I am working out a plan to invest in the purchase of a boat that will give me experience, but without the so-called "investment" of renting someone else's boat. I cannot fully explain why this is so on this forum, but if you have any experience with US tax law you may understand.

I only wish there were some controversy about which type of boat would be best. Sadly, it's only too clear that the answer is "Lagoon" - far beyond my budget (as if such a thing were defined), far more boat than I really need or really care for, but otherwise absolutely perfect for my situation.

I started by taking my wife to view some 1990's circa monohulls, like the one I left behind in New Orleans. It only took an hour or two to see the flaws in that plan - flaws which have been reiterated by many couples on these forums. To put it succinctly
"If I want to sail alone, I'll cruise in a monohull (around 25-30k)"
"If I want to sail with a woman, I'll choose a catamaran (around 250-300k)"

As I said, and have demonstrated, I dearly wish I had more alternatives but this is the fact of the matter.

Noelex,

One things for sure, ArtM's creditibility and interest in Catamarans revolves around stirring the pot not unlike DOJ, however DOJ is perhaps more upfront.

I can't say his queries, suggestions or comments seem anything other than the love of the internet.
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Old 28-06-2012, 23:47   #236
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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Noelex,

One things for sure, ArtM's creditibility and interest in Catamarans revolves around stirring the pot not unlike DOJ, however DOJ is perhaps more upfront.

I can't say his queries, suggestions or comments seem anything other than the love of the internet.
Awww - I thought the reference to flying fishes on the bridgedeck was gonna fool you guys!

Maybe I should have made up some more details about my adventures in Lake Pontchartrain, like the time I finally discovered the source of that odd smell, and of the "swaying" sensation, and how they turned out to actually have nothing to do with each other.

You caught me again.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:05   #237
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2mtr short chop 25 to 30 knots me in 52ft sports racer with chop on aft quarter , others in multi 45 ft looking very worried and holding on for dear life.... I just smiled as I passed surfing the waves hitting 14 knots!
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:43   #238
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2mtr short chop 25 to 30 knots me in 52ft sports racer with chop on aft quarter , others in multi 45 ft looking very worried and holding on for dear life.... I just smiled as I passed surfing the waves hitting 14 knots!
Hmmm sports racer vs probably slow charter cat, not apples to apples. Now if that was a cat that had any performing abilities it would probably have been sailing in the mid teens average with surfs higher.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:03   #239
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Well yes it was a charter cat but it was my observation on how it was handling the conditions mono vs multi I'm sure a lightweight cat would have been better but still prefer some weight in a boat that's my preference.
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Old 04-07-2012, 15:21   #240
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Re: Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

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2mtr short chop 25 to 30 knots me in 52ft sports racer with chop on aft quarter , others in multi 45 ft looking very worried and holding on for dear life.... I just smiled as I passed surfing the waves hitting 14 knots!
2mtr short chop on aft quarter & 25-30kn breeze would most definitely not see us "looking very worried and holding on for dear life"...been there, done that with a lot rougher conditions and still very confident...and 14kn is no big sweat either with 25-30kn winds.

On the other hand, 45-50 kn winds and 6mtr seas kept us focussed (altho still not "very worried and holding on for dear life") with surfing speeds >21kn...and that more than once as well...
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