Mono vs. Multi - Sailing Ability

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by malbert73

So I always am suspect of the staying power in cruising for those who didn't fall in love with the sport on smaller monohulls, as I did growing up, and my wife did when she met me, and our small kids are doing now. If new cruisers need the supposed comfort of a large cat to get into the sport, I think many are in for a surprise when the luster wears off.

My sport is traveling to new places and enjoying the local culture.

It was hard for pilots to understand, when I bought an airplane, that I had little interest in airplanes or in flying.

It will be hard for sailors to understand why I want to have a boat when I have little interest in sailing or in boats.

However, it will be easy for travelers to understand my desire to travel.

(note the above is not true. I do enjoy sailing, but it is not my motiviation main motivation. At present, I'm traveling too frequently to get a boat, and am often near different shores, or no shores at all. I'm thinking about a Macgregor style day-sailor if/when I am stable enough to put it to use, until I'm ready to go cruising, which is more likely to happen first)

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by ArtM

My sport is traveling to new places and enjoying the local culture.

I have not read all of this thread - but from the bits I have read, sounds like a multihull would be right up your street .

Have you considered a Lagoon?

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I have not read all of this thread - but from the bits I have read, sounds like a multihull would be right up your street .

Have you considered a Lagoon?

No. What's a Lagoon?

[smj]

Originally Posted by malbert73

If I ever decide to convert to cats, I expect a great deal of them on the used market in the next 10 years. Seems a lot of new cruisers see them and imagine the comforts of home. The problem is, they still are small compared to any apartment. Motion, humidity, rain showers, etc still lead to discomfort relative to living on land. Provisioning takes major effort, especially in boats that are tough to find marina space for. This new generation of new cats is not established for decades, so maintenance is likely to be higher than expected. Water and electricity is not limitless as on land, especially if diesel runs out, or generators fail, or watermakers stop working, as they all like to do.
The point is, if cruisers don't already love sailing and closeness to nature, I am not sure the "comfort and lack of heeling" of a cat is enough to keep them in the sport.
So I always am suspect of the staying power in cruising for those who didn't fall in love with the sport on smaller monohulls, as I did growing up, and my wife did when she met me, and our small kids are doing now. If new cruisers need the supposed comfort of a large cat to get into the sport, I think many are in for a surprise when the luster wears off.

What you're saying also holds true for monohulls as well. Amazing how many boats end up for sale in Miami and Ft Lauderdale as its the end of the road before setting of to the Bahamas and people find out its not for them on the way down the east coast. I also think its common nowadays for people to buy a boat for a 1-3 year trip then sell. This is in monos and multis. From my experiance of owning cats for 20+ years and talking to other cat owners is that most cats are being bought by experianced mono sailors not newbies. But no doubt in 10'years there will be more cats on the market for the simple fact that more cats are being built now.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by smj

What you're saying also holds true for monohulls as well. Amazing how many boats end up for sale in Miami and Ft Lauderdale as its the end of the road before setting of to the Bahamas and people find out its not for them on the way down the east coast. I also think its common nowadays for people to buy a boat for a 1-3 year trip then sell. This is in monos and multis. From my experiance of owning cats for 20+ years and talking to other cat owners is that most cats are being bought by experianced mono sailors not newbies. But no doubt in 10'years there will be more cats on the market for the simple fact that more cats are being built now.

It's already starting. Multihull owners are asking WAY too much for their boats, and the market is already being flooded with Ex-charter boats at far more sensible prices.

[cpa]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I don't think such a boat would have the ballast you're mentioning. In cats, a more common arrangement is a daggerboard, which is not ballasted, instead of a fixed keel.
I'm not sure fixed keels would work. I understand that daggerboards on cats are only used on one side of the boat at a time, and in fact in at least model is installed only on the port hull. I would think that a fixed keel design, if created might only be installed on one of the hulls, but I would not expect it to be ballasted.

I agree with you there and feel the same about a mid 40' monohull with 20' of beam, 3 foot draft, huge freeboard and a large raised salon. I guess that is my main point.

Originally Posted by ArtM

"not to fall all over the place"? Did you really just state that you prefer to be in an enclosed, dark space because you enjoy being tossed around inside your boat for days at a time? I respect your interest and love for this kind of sailing, but if I were a manufacturer I would not want to bet my future on that market segment.

Lol, I must not have been clear when I stated:

"and prefer a deep and dark cabin that is tight enough for me not to fall over the place because I love to sail to weather in 30 knots with the rail buried for days at a time."

Originally Posted by ArtM

The relevance to the argument was that this monohulled sailboat, outfitted primarily for comfort and shallow water, sailed like a dog, and a catamaran would have been far more suited to the purpose and would have sailed at least as well.

I guess it depends on your definition of shallow water. As stated by previous posters, the Garcia and Alubats are very sensible cruising boats that have multihull type draft. Nautor makes a 53 Swan that has less 4.6 feet of draft.

http://www.swanyachts.co.uk/document...esentation.pdf

Originally Posted by ArtM

The vast majority of reality falls in between (for CRUISING class vessels), which includes super-beamy modified-keel boats like the Catalina 42 which sails like a slow catamaran, or the daggerboard-wielding cruising cats from Gunboat that sail like a racing monohull.

I agree and comparing a Catalina 42 with shoal draft to a Gunboat is like comparing a Sundeer 64 to an Iroquois . Basically apples to oranges.

[smj]

Originally Posted by ArtM

It's already starting. Multihull owners are asking WAY too much for their boats, and the market is already being flooded with Ex-charter boats at far more sensible prices.

There is a reason the ex-charter boats are at a more sensible price. They have been used and abused by people who don't care as they don't own them. They have high engine hours and mostly poor maintenance and are not well equipped. The market for a well maintained well equipped privately owned boat is MUCH higher than a used charter boat.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by smj

There is a reason the ex-charter boats are at a more sensible price. They have been used and abused by people who don't care as they don't own them. They have high engine hours and mostly poor maintenance and are not well equipped. The market for a well maintained well equipped privately owned boat is MUCH higher than a used charter boat.

I have been thinking of starting a thread titled "Why I think charter boats are a good buy"

[Bash]

Originally Posted by ArtM

It will be hard for sailors to understand why I want to have a boat when I have little interest in sailing or in boats.

The problem here is that you're reinforcing a stereotype of the multihull owner who took a relatively unsuccessful sailing lesson late in life and then decided to purchase a boat that could be sailed without its owner ever getting the impression that he was on a boat.

I suspect that multihull owners, should any be left reading the thread at this point, might want to tell you that you're really not helping in terms of image. You claim not to have understood why your instructor wanted you to learn to go to weather. You claim that you want to reach wherever you go during your cruising career. And then you claim, at least for a moment, to have little interest in sailing or in boats. None of this adds to a sailor's credibility.

When David Old Jersey suggested you were a good candidate for a lagoon, that was probably not meant as a complement. You responded, "What's a lagoon?" despite the fact that you'd listed two Lagoon models that you'd like to own in your profile. What's up with that? The point comes when we can't come to any other conclusion that you're here only to stir the pot.

If that's your goal here, please stop wasting our time.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Bash

The problem here is that you're reinforcing a stereotype of the multihull owner who took a relatively unsuccessful sailing lesson late in life and then decided to purchase a boat that could be sailed without its owner ever getting the impression that he was on a boat.

I suspect that multihull owners, should any be left reading the thread at this point, might want to tell you that you're really not helping in terms of image. You claim not to have understood why your instructor wanted you to learn to go to weather. You claim that you want to reach wherever you go during your cruising career. And then you claim, at least for a moment, to have little interest in sailing or in boats. None of this adds to a sailor's credibility.

When David Old Jersey suggested you were a good candidate for a lagoon, that was probably not meant as a complement. You responded, "What's a lagoon?" despite the fact that you'd listed two Lagoon models that you'd like to own in your profile. What's up with that? The point comes when we can't come to any other conclusion that you're here only to stir the pot.

If that's your goal here, please stop wasting our time.

Dave has been reading my posts for a while. I could only assume he was kidding with me. If not, then the joke is on him since every single post I've ever made is labeled "WTB Lagoon 410 or 420". Either way, it's his joke or mine.

I deleted the rest of my response to this post, as I have deleted other responses I've made to your posts in the past. I have no choice except to assume that YOU are here to stir the pot.

Reinforcing negative stereotypes indeed!! I suspect that you are likely to receive a spate of responses from multihullers who are desperately seeking your approval.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Bash

TYou claim not to have understood why your instructor wanted you to learn to go to weather. You claim that you want to reach wherever you go during your cruising career. And then you claim, at least for a moment, to have little interest in sailing or in boats. None of this adds to a sailor's credibility.

I don't know, man, this is not helping YOUR credibility. This is absolutely not what I said at all. In fact, you've misrepresented several things I've said. I think you're just not reading carefully, or just not using critical reasoning.

My instructors LOVED to sail to weather. It was just a thrill for them, nothing more. Further, I told them exactly what I expected from the charter, and learning to go to weather (this does not require 5 days to learn) was not one of them.

To be fair to them, though, there was also some limitation to to the topography. The wind was blowing onto shore most of the time, and maneuvers were most often carrying us downwind (when we weren't point to weather), so there was a certain amount of beating upwind that was necessary. The points of that story were that (a) beating upwind in a monohull was fun for them, but not for us and (b) that their monohull sailboat did not beat upwind very well - though certainly not for lack of trying!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by ArtM

Dave has been reading my posts for a while. I could only assume he was kidding with me.

No, was genuinely meant - just on the off chance you were being serious (with this thread and others).

[neilpride]

Mr, with all the respect mate, this is ridiculous...this topic has lost interest 4 pages ago, no offense, but to get interesting answers or opinions you need to ask or make opinions intelligent and meaningful, you have lots of good advices from posters in this topic, thats the nice part of this forum , to get nice info or sugestions or advices, Monomultis threads always end bad,,, but at least there is a idea or a curious discussion, do yourself a favor, post something smart or close this thread , dont make any sense . Im off , Cheers.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

No, was genuinely meant - just on the off chance you were being serious (with this thread and others).

Hi Dave, sorry to have misinterpreted your meaning. Lagoons have been my main focus. I've viewed a number of models, and am currently seeking possible alternatives. However, the lagoons repeatedly appear the most favorable to me, due to their shallow draft, top deck features, and excellent performance.

However, I'm put off by the high prices and extreme uniformity in their decor and styling.

I have several threads with few or no responses which are specifically seeking guidance and feedback on lagoon boats, as well as the ubiquitous "Lagoon Fetish part 1"thread which was incorrectly moved into the Lagoon forum from the multi_hulls forum, and this one which was not intended to be about me, my needs, or about Lagoons.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Mr, with all the respect mate, this is ridiculous...this topic has lost interest 4 pages ago, no offense, but to get interesting answers or opinions you need to ask or make opinions intelligent and meaningful, you have lots of good advices from posters in this topic, thats the nice part of this forum , to get nice info or sugestions or advices, Monomultis threads always end bad,,, but at least there is a idea or a curious discussion, do yourself a favor, post something smart or close this thread , dont make any sense . Im off , Cheers.

I can close this thread?