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Old 06-09-2005, 01:45   #16
Kai Nui
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A PS to this thread, the current Latitude 38 includes an excellent article on MOB recovery, and some classes that are taught locally in the bay area. These excercises included putting a person in the water. I think I might sign up.
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Old 19-01-2006, 22:54   #17
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Kai Nui pointed me to this thread from this one: http://cruisersforum.com/showthread....&threadid=3040

I won't repeat most of what I said there, but I would like to add that my teaching style is to get the students to think through a problem rather than memorize what's in the book, because it never happens like it does in the book (don't get me started on "sailing authorities").

Ask a student how they stop the boat, and most will come up with heading up and freeing the sheets. So I tell them, look, whatever happens, your goal is to get the boat about two boatlengths downwind of the bouy, turn up wind and free the jib. Tighten the main if you can to prevent the boom from knocking you in the head. When you get near the bouy, walk up and grab it.

I don't like stopping the boat to windward; I don't relish being flogged by flailing jibsheets. Most fin keelers will stay head-to-wind long enough to toss a line. Get the engine started if you can, leave it in nuetral.

I have my own method that I teach in addition to the US Sailing methods (and don't get me started on them naming the figure-8 Quick-turn when the other one in the book is the quick-stop, or vice-versa, I can never keep them straight). At the sound of the scream and the splash, beam reach. Immediately heave to, but instead of putting the tiller down to stop the boat, as the jib back and Oscar becomes visibe in front of the boat, steer one boatlength downwind of him. Now you're going 1.5 knots instead of 6, because having the jib backed is like driving with your foot on the brake. It makes Oscar feel better too that there's no boat barrelling down on him like a freight train. As you're getting there, start undoing the jib from the winch. When he's about 10-15 degrees before dead upwind, cast off the jib and hard over on the rudder. Coast to a stop next to him, and tell him he's cut off from the bar. Elapsed time on average for a new student, 2 minutes or under. In 15 knots on a 35-footer I can do it in 30 seconds. Sure, I know somebodies going to throw the bouy, but I've also practiced/taught it so many times that it's second nature, so if a hat goes, boom, there it is.

It's a combo of the figure-8 and heave-to. I have yet to have a student not pick it up easily and remark something to the effect of "that's so simple, why isn't that in the book?"

Granted, these are modern manueverable fin-keelers, but what that's what most people sail on these days. And above all, the most important thing to impress is the practicing. After all, sailing into a dock and picking up a mooring under sail are the same as an MOB excercise - bringing a boat to a stop next to an object in the water.
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Old 19-01-2006, 23:12   #18
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I like it. I'll have to give it a try next time I am out. I have used similar procedures when picking up a crab pot.
That is another great way to practice MOB procedures. Go pick up your pots at night Takes some patience, but it is realy gratifying to find that little orange bouy in the pitch black.
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Old 20-01-2006, 20:27   #19
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Good Introduction

Look at the links and videos in it.

http://www.sailingusa.info/man_over_board.htm
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Old 21-01-2006, 01:55   #20
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I teach at a US Sailing school, and, because of that, have to teach those methods as part of the curriculum. The figure 8 is what most people instictively do, because it just seems obvious.

As I said in an earler thread, those methods (and several other things in the book) all work great in the book but no so well in reality, especially given a shorthanded or singlehanding crew.

So after I have the students practice those and get the idea, I show them mine as an additional idea. The more arrows in your quiver, the more likely you are to hit the target.

If I can ever figure out how to do a computer drawing, I'll post a drawing of my method here.
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Old 21-01-2006, 08:44   #21
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Figure eight

When I have the students out and we do a figure eight the headsail always seems to get tangled. So I do it by the book and I do it with the input from the students to determine which way works. Dropping the headsail and using the main only seems much easier than messing with the headsail. Using the headsail would be easier if we had the extra person who is presumed over board. Also we find one turn and aiming for the person is better than a planned figure out because doing that is easier than following the book. A common question raised by the students is " Now that we have hooked the MOB, how do we get them on board " I built a swim grid to help with that process.
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Old 21-01-2006, 13:02   #22
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Sonofason,

Your method sounds good - I'll definately give it a try. I'm trying to picture where the wind is when you get alongside Oscar - is it on the bow? Or is the man leeward or windward?
A recent sailing magazine (don't ask me which one, as I can't find it) had an article about some San Francisco based sailing org that tested methods of recovery and they liked the "deep beam reach" recovery (http://www.cobevent.com/deepbeamreach.pdf).
Seems to me that your method is a cross between this method and heaving to.

Kevin
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Old 21-01-2006, 17:00   #23
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When we had our incident, we had been running at about 9.5 kts, surfing wavetops. We had decreased sail by furling the headsail in completely. This proved to be problematic when trying to manuever along side the dinghy. We had lost all ability to point, even motor sailing. It was only after we dropped the main that we were able to put the boat where we wanted it. Granted, we were on a ketch, with full keel, and in 20kt winds, bu the extra control we had with the jib was sorely needed.
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Old 21-01-2006, 17:25   #24
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No jib

Yeh, I did not think about qualifying my no jib works better for us statement. We need to know the way of the boat we are on. My boat sails fine with just the main up. When we take the students out it is usually one skipper and two students. With one person supposedly in the water that leaves two rookies to run the boat.
With one person looking and one person steering there is no one else to tend the jib. The steering person can pull in the main and start the engine.
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Old 23-01-2006, 07:03   #25
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Test Results

You may be intersted that a significant test was undertaken in San Francisco Bay last August, using a number of different tools and techniques to retrieve a person (not a hat or a seat cushion) from the waters of the bay. The tests were co-sponsored by West Marine, BoatUS and others. More info is available at the web site : http://www.cobevent.com/index.html

Unfortunately the test results are not posted, but apparently the results have been (or will be) documneted in Blue Water Sailing, Kazi, Latitude 38, Multihull, Practical Sailor, Sail, Sailing, Sailing World, Santana, Soundings, and Yachting. I have been reading excerpts from Practical Sailor, written by John Rousmaniere who was an active participant. It makes for very interesting reading, and some of their findings I think are very valuable for anoyone who spends time on the water.

John
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Old 23-01-2006, 21:05   #26
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BC Mike -

I like to end up with my bow pointed into the wind, and with a roller furling sail, it's real easy to just roll up the jib quickly, not caring about form. That way, you don't have to worry about whipping jib sheets or the flogging jib blowing the bow off. A quick snug on the main keeps it centered and prevents the boom from knocking anyone else overboard. The main also helps keep the bow into the wind.

Here's a photo from this weekend of my first trial - a student is soloing, he's got the boat head to wind, and he's about to throw the line w/hook (one of those hooks used to hang a bike from it's wheel siezed to a 3/8" line I had, about 25') to the MOB. We're in 15-20 knots at this point, Catalina 380 with a double reefed main. The seas look calm b/c we're in a bit of a wind shadow. He was able to hook it on his scond throw; a good practice of re-coiling and heaving a line.


Ok, I can't seem to be able post a pic - can someone fill me in here?
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Old 24-01-2006, 12:25   #27
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Kai,

Diving off shore ( Flower Gardens is ~100 NM south of Galveston) here in the States, dive operators are requiring all divers to carry a 'safety sausage' so they can be seen in swells.

If you aren't aware it's a nylon tube about 6-8" in diameter that you orally inflate on the surface and will stand up about 6-15 feet depending on the model. Both my wife and I carry one any time we boat dive and you can even get them with pockets for cylume light sticks for night.

In your (or anyone elses experience) would this make it a lot easier to find/ keep track of the MOB in general? My understanding was it was developed by the CG for it's own people......

Packed it rolls into a cylinder about 4" long and maybe 3-4 " in diameter. Would seem to me like an inexpensive item that could be hand sewn/ permanently (in it's own case) mounted to a safety harness or live vest without much effort.
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Old 24-01-2006, 20:00   #28
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That sounds like a good safety device to have on your person. The only concern I would have is that often, a person overboard would not have the ability to inflate something like this, or would be too paniced to inflate it. It would also be a concern that crew would not wear it on a regular basis. It is easy in a race, or daysail, to get guests to wear a life jacket, but for the every day cruiser, it is a challenge just to develop the habit of wearing a harness unless the conditions are extreme.
I think one of the best such safety advancements right now is the MOB wrist band. These units are getting almost affordable, and are compact enough that it is easy to get in the habit of wearing one whenever you are on deck. Most often, when cruisers end up in the water it is due to "just going forward for a second to adjust a halyard", or "just going forward to pull the genoa around the inner forestay" or something along those lines. Most of us, myself included, consider it a minor task to go forward for some small task in average conditions. It is not easy to condition ourselves to prepare as if we are going for a sail change in gale conditions, every time. I think all of us take calculated risks, but a safety device that is so convenient that it would be used, regardless of these calculated risks is going to be the most effective.
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Old 27-01-2006, 07:37   #29
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MOB wrist band

I like the idea of the wrist band - Kai Nui, could you post a link to it or describe it more?

Also, for the MOB routine, I don't practice near often enough, but like the stop the boat, throw a cushion method the best for short handed crew. This way, hopefully Oscar can swim in closer and get aboard using the ladder before they get too cold and tired.
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Old 27-01-2006, 07:41   #30
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“Oscar”
Glossary

From Ward Esaak,
Your Guide to Sailing.

Definition:
Word which signifies the letter "O" in International Maritime Signals.

When flag is flown singly on a vessel it means,"Man overboard ."

In Morse code: - - - (dash-dash-dash)
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