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Portobello · 03-08-2009, 00:08

Sail-World.com : MOB - She couldn't pull him back on board

After reading this I wondered what sorts of preparations others have made to overcome this terrifying possibility.

anjou · 03-08-2009, 00:14

Maybe having a ladder should be made law. Even a rope ladder.
Im not strong enough to pull anyone on board when they are wet through but im sure I would think of something, but im a practical person.
Someone who is little more than a cruising passenger and who might panic or lose the plot in an emergency may not be so able.

Portobello · 03-08-2009, 00:23

I have a ladder which can be seen in this picture: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...icture2157.jpg
My boat has a fair bit of freeboard and is difficult to get back onboard without the ladder - even in ideal conditions!

Maren · 03-08-2009, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portobello

After reading this I wondered what sorts of preparations others have made to overcome this terrifying possibility.

I couldn't get the link to work, but we have tried the following with good success:

Upon recovery (i.e. one the lifering or next to the boat) drop the main, pull the main halliard to the outhaul block. Guy out the main, attach the halyard to the MOB, and attach to harness. Crank him up. This still isn't easy and isn't comfortable but it works decently well.

Talbot · 03-08-2009, 01:31

Lots of people have probably looked at this thread and thought - I've got a ladder so no problem.

Have you actually tried to get onboard from the water using that ladder when in wet clothes (thus weighing a lot more than normal)

Most ladders are too short and demand that arm strength is the only way to get onto the first step, by which time you are more than half out of the water.

If the ladder was a bit longer, that first step would mainly be due to leg strength - and our legs are much stronger than our arms. I discovered I could not use the normal ladder to return onboard after a dive under the boat to clean the slime of and just did not have the strength left in my arms. I got my son to lower a bight of rope so that I could put my foot into that and thus climb out easily. I subsequently changed my ladder for a much longer one, and within a year it had been used for real by an exhausted crew of a small racing cat that had capsized. A big man, I would not have been able to pull him out without help, but the long ladder meant that he was able to get out of the water himself.

Check your ladder length underwater.

**Wotname** · 03-08-2009, 01:36

Gotta agree with Talbot and add that even a long ladder will only work if the MOB still has a reasonable reserve of strength left.

Maren's method is a reasonable one (IMO) and again, its practice that makes such recoveries possible.

**Pblais** · 03-08-2009, 03:22

Quote:

Check your ladder length underwater.

You need two steps under water to have a chance climbing a ladder. It helps if you were not tossed overboard by the pitching deck and maybe got smacked up on the trip. An Injured arm or leg could make a ladder not the way back aboard.

If you consider Lifesling you can then rig a block and line using the main boom to lift someone aboard with a winch. A 120 lb woman can lift a 250 lb man with the right tools. This takes a round or two of practice to set up and operate quickly.

Practice is really a good idea no matter what you use. MOB drills and other types of emergency procedures are important for all aboard to understand.

David_Old_Jersey · 03-08-2009, 04:23

Ladder angle would also be important.

I would still favour using an inflatable dinghy (or even a liferaft) to recover a person, especially shorthanded. Obviously not without risk to the rescuer if they have to enter the dinghy to assist the MOB, but nor is trying to manhandle a person aboard a moving vessel......a possible (likely?) explanation for the odd 2 handed vessel being found afloat - empty.

Indeed, it has occured to me a few times that a dedicated MOB raft would be useful to have onboard, a simple inflatable built for one person & short term use with low freeboard - kinda like a WWII (and current?) Pilots liferaft - the objective being to allow the MOB to easily raise themselves out of the water to later assist themselves to reboard the vessel by providing a platform to climb a ladder, plus a less tiring place to await rescue than bobbing around in the Ocean (lifejacket or not), give added time to the rescuer to plan & execute a rescue and although not dry would ensure they had not doubled their body weight with water - albeit I don't know whether being 100% wet and out of the ocean rather than being in the water decreases or increases hypothermia / loss of strength.............I think their are similar things on the market, albeit they seem to be designed for use alongside with slings and harnesses to winch folk aboard, rather than being deployed like a lifering on a long tether - which to me seems both a quicker and a KISS approach.

If I got into the MOB liferaft business, would call it a "Goat Raft"

(Going Overboard Assistance Transport).

Sandero · 03-08-2009, 04:42

A long drop down ladder is pretty key to getting on board a sailboat. Another assist would be a halyard which can be attached to a harness and used to haul up the person in the water with a winch. If you can do this near a ladder or even a rope ladder you clip on the person may be able to assist in their own rescue and climb aboard.

Perhaps a line with a loop or two (a dock line) can be dropped overboard so that the person can step on the loop and use it as a step which can be hauled in with a winch???

What about an invention of some sort of large auto quick inflatable device which the person can climb on or in?

Eleven · 03-08-2009, 06:30

The end of most booms will reach the stern or side. Just make sure your boom support line is good enough to carry two man weights. It would be a bonus to be able to use the winch(es) to hoist an exhausted swimmer to deck rail level.
Worst scenario is an unconsious MOB and suely two on board should have a recovery plan for that situation.

Portobello · 03-08-2009, 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eleven

The end of most booms will reach the stern or side. Just make sure your boom support line is good enough to carry two man weights. It would be a bonus to be able to use the winch(es) to hoist an exhausted swimmer to deck rail level.
Worst scenario is an unconsious MOB and suely two on board should have a recovery plan for that situation.

I agree - a recovery plan that has been rehearsed. My wife and I have discussed this possiblity - me getting knocked out by the boom and thrown into the water - even with a harness and tether on there is still the need to get back on board. I like the system that uses a spare jib - attached to the rail tightly by the foot on the inside of the safety lines with with the sail draping over the safety lines dipping into the water then to a halyard attached to the head of the sail. An unconscious "body" can be raised out of the water inside the sail as it is lifted by the halyard and literally flopped onto the deck.

Curmudgeon · 03-08-2009, 07:22

I have (1) a swim ladder with two steps under water (2) two safety steps on the rudder and transom (3) a spare main halyard, a life sling and plenty of winches. I'm fairly sure that my wife could winch me up, although if I were unconscious she would have to stop the boat, climb down the swim ladder, put the sling around me and then climb back up. I have a type 5 auto inflatable, so hopefully that would keep my head out of the water.

cal40john · 03-08-2009, 07:38

Our club teamed up with another to host a crew recovery seminar. The boats were left tied to the dock and volunteers went into the water. The techniques that I remember that were tried were:
jib sheet as an elevator
jib forming a sling in the water
using a halyard attached to a Lifesling
using the mainsheet.

Jib sheet as elevator required good balance and strength from victim.

Jib forming a sling was claustrophobic and lots of water trapped in the jib making it hard to breathe.

Halyard to Lifesling worked well, but on smaller boats the winch was almost not powerful enough to hoist a large person.There was no need to rig the boom as an outrigger, so was never tried.

Our smallest keelboats at the time had no halyard winches at all, so the bottom block of the mainsheet had a quick release shackle, the end of the boom was eased outboard and the shackle attached to the Lifesling. This worked fairly well, but more than once people weren't paying attention to how long the line to the Lifesling was and had to raise the boom or attach the mainsheet block directly to the Lifesling to be able to hoist the person high enough.

Returning to man overboard was practiced separately with no live persons in the water.

More descriptions of the techniques can be found here:
http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...nal+Report.pdf

On our boat I have made sure that my wife has enough strength and the halyard winch has enough power by lifting me off the deck partway up the mast.

John

Joli · 03-08-2009, 07:43

It is extremely difficult to get back aboard if you go overboard. Many suggest using the transom ladder but that can be a night mare in itself, remember the boat will be hobby horsing in a seaway and it can be a dangerous place to be.

We carry a life sling, MOM, and other items but the best defense in my opinion is a jack line and a SHORT tether.