Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-08-2009, 08:55   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
That works too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais View Post
No crew is allowed to leave the boat until it comes to a complete stop. Prevention preceeds everything else.
__________________

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 09:14   #17
Registered User
 
captmick39's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yankeetown, FL(boat)Inglis(home)
Boat: P39Hull#72"Schadenfreude"
Posts: 214
Here's LADDER For YA!

Just click on profile & You'll see the custom installed reverse transom ladder from HADES!

Yes, it IS folded in half, and folded UP in the stowed position (while in a travel lift on the way to the water...never the less, folks when lowered and folded down it has 3 & almost 4 rungs IN the Water. Easily climbed, soaking wet, exhausted, and w/lifejacket on. Designed for diving.

This is 1 of those times a PLATFORM on the transom really makes sense, most of us hate them as they & dinks are a bad mix.

LifeSlings Are AWESOME, probably 1 of the best inventions of the last century besides solid vangs. Anyone who doesn't have 1 shouldn't be allowed to sail shorthanded.

MOB Drills are JUST LIKE DOCKING!
Practice, Practice, Practice....while some of us have GPS interfaced w/AH's that can return us to the EXACT position where crew member "X" entered the drink...they won't BE at that exact spot upon return, betcha.

In addition, starting off w/a life jacket, then a "weighted dummy"(usually a crew member...perferably a CREW MEMBER) works the bugs out on calm days.

Folks who've never practiced this process are clueless. Those who have know the following statements true....
1-THROW that Horseshoe Bouy/RING! It gives them (even WITH a lifejacekt on, "something to hold on to"...a "security blanket" & that's nice as You watch the transom disappear on the horizon...very nice;
Proper tracking (45 1 way then 135 the other to reverse course, KEEPING AN EYEBALL on the "victim" the WHOLE TIME, making ready, snatching w/boat hook & "rescuing" just a LIFE JACKET can easily take 15 min.
Make it a real person, make it 30-45.
Make it a exhausted/ or lifeless person offering no personal assistance to the process of saving themselves and it becomes 1 hr-1.25hrs. All this while You, from arrival back at MOB...are ADRIFT. The more crew the better...w/o a Brand New LifeSling on board, and 1 we literally WORE OUT Practicing with it, we (wife & I) would NEVER contemplate leaving sight of land...EVER (which is a real biotch round these parts as often 7 mi. offshore depths of 4-5 are regularly encountered.

If You KNOW and have practiced over and over and over some more, You get confident. Highest reccomendation is to practice the drill, starting out the easy way(to knock the 'rust' off) and ending with the hardest, at least 1 full day or until comfortable(again) per season as a standard exercise.

Remember 2 critical things when sailing short handed....
1-Jack Lines PREVENT MOB's...when properly used (which should be ALWAYS when on deck alone).

2-Murphy was an optimist.

By that, it will never be in ideal conditions when somebody winds up in the drink...doesn't happen. NOTHING will work RIGHT, however You WON'T Freak out, because You know what You have to do, and You Just Do it. Dealing with monkey wrenches tossed in to the works is so much easier when ALL Of You have a working knowledge of how the gears turn in the process.
3-If, at the end of the day practicing You are exhausted...You did everything right. If You aren't sore the next day, You CHEATED and Murphy will come get ya.
-Mick
__________________

__________________
captmick39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 11:49   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
Maybe having a ladder should be made law. Even a rope ladder.
In Canada, any vessel with a freeboard of more than .5 metres is required is have a reboarding device.

Swim ladders are not really safe in large seas. I agree that most swim ladders are about two rungs too short.

An inflatable dinghy can be used to get a person out of the water. They can be pulled on board more easily, especially in you deflate one pontoon slightly.

Jack
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:12   #19
S&S
Registered User
 
S&S's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: 48' 1963 S&S yawl
Posts: 851
Images: 6
We have the rule of requiring night watches wear harnesses and tethers while on deck- regardless of weather. Also, no single person on deck at night (pairs). Hypothermia is a big concern here. We use a lifesling+snatch block arrangement on the boom end (at least that's the theory)
__________________
S&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:18   #20
Registered User
 
captmick39's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yankeetown, FL(boat)Inglis(home)
Boat: P39Hull#72"Schadenfreude"
Posts: 214
Theory...never a good word

Quote:
Originally Posted by S&S View Post
We have the rule of requiring night watches wear harnesses and tethers while on deck- regardless of weather. Also, no single person on deck at night (pairs). Hypothermia is a big concern here. We use a lifesling+snatch block arrangement on the boom end (at least that's the theory)
make "theory" reality by PRACTICING w/same. Like First Aid kits, Lifesling comes w/directions right on the outside of the bag...
the worst time in the world to be reading them is after You deployed it.
__________________
captmick39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:28   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by S&S View Post
We have the rule of requiring night watches wear harnesses and tethers while on deck- regardless of weather. Also, no single person on deck at night (pairs). Hypothermia is a big concern here. We use a lifesling+snatch block arrangement on the boom end (at least that's the theory)
I would add tethers and harnesses offshore day and night. I like the tethers placed in strategic positions, rather than each person having their own tether.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:40   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
A few thoughts after reading posts to this point:

1. I think you need to develop your own plan based on factors specific to you such as your boat, your abilities, your crew and your cruising conditions. One strategy I've practiced that I haven't seen mentioned here: I've jumped off my vessel when underway, hauled myself up into the inflatable dingy and pulled that up to the parent vessel and re boarded it without aid. If injured, someone could pull me up the the parent vessel, just hanging on to the dinghy. Obviously both would be easier with just enough power to maintain steerageway. Clearly this is only coastal option when the dinghy is towed. I also regularly board my boat after swimming without using a ladder or dingy, though I know this would be different if injured or exhausted.

2. I've noticed most here logically assume boarding via the back of the boat, yet many also advocate using short tethers, which if not as short as you think, might leave the person hanging over the side of the boat nowhere near the transom. I think MOB plans should include this scenario.

3. I think the utility of rescue gear is situational. A sling or man over board pole does me little good when I'm going solo or if the rest of the crew is below sleeping and unaware that I'm in trouble, or has not been trained in it's use. The reality is when casually sailing with new crew, you can't spend hours practicing every single scenario that may come up. Doing so could take as long as the cruise itself. Obviously having a seasoned crew for passage making is different than having casual friends join you for a week of easy island sailing. The skills, training and equipment will reflect this and are not absolute.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 12:40   #23
Registered User
 
captmick39's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yankeetown, FL(boat)Inglis(home)
Boat: P39Hull#72"Schadenfreude"
Posts: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I would add tethers and harnesses offshore day and night. I like the tethers placed in strategic positions, rather than each person having their own tether.
After having been thru the NW quadrant of a hurricane(Hugo) on a 20M IOR racer being delivered fm CT. to Ft.Laud. I have to ask...
Wouldn't that decision be best on a "vessel to vessel" application? As a life long rigger, I despise loose flotsam & jetsam on the decks, including "tethers". Jack lines get moved from 1 securing position to the next, w/the "Other Hand" making danged sure it's affixed to something also permanently affixed to that Hull.
What do You see as the advantages of tethers that outweighs jacklines?
__________________
captmick39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 13:17   #24
S&S
Registered User
 
S&S's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: 48' 1963 S&S yawl
Posts: 851
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by captmick39 View Post
make "theory" reality by PRACTICING w/same. Like First Aid kits, Lifesling comes w/directions right on the outside of the bag...
the worst time in the world to be reading them is after You deployed it.
We practice drills, but haven't had to do a "live" pick up. Sorry for the confusion, but it's theory until you have to do it "for real".

A good thing to have is a clip on point at the hatch so you're tethered before you go on deck.

Daytime tethering is weather dependent thing for us- light breeze, flat water ???. Life jackets on deck are required if we're off shore though. Day or night.
__________________
S&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 13:25   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
Has anyone here ever compared using a life sling to climbing up a transom ladder when hove to with a notable sea state? I'd love to hear what each was like - seriously.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 13:30   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,365
You just have to have a lifesling and know how to use it. I partcipated in actual man overboard drills in Puget Sound with survival suits on. It's a lot tougher than it looks even when you know it's coming! In cold water the ladder will be little use. If you are warm water only,then maybe it's viable. The stern can be very dangerous in a sea state, I would think having the ladder on the lee side, at least in moderate seas would be best...
__________________
Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 14:07   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Boat: Hans Christian Christina (40') in March 09
Posts: 198
Not having fallen overboard except on purpose.....

Part of the swimming training I had as a kid involved jumping in the deep end of the pool fully clothed. That was a fun portion of the class! That experience and others since while diving and just playing around have taught me that you really need more than two steps below the water if possible. If you think two are enough I advise you to put on a set of street cloths (blue jeans, long sleeve shirt with T-shirt, Shoes and socks) and try to get back aboard in nice weather. I'm not weak, but it would be a bear! especially after a short swim, tread and even with a my life vest. (One of these days I'm going to do this drill with my business suit and leave everything in the Bay just to get rid of it. )

I can climb (have the skill and have done it) back aboard a heaving boat with scuba gear on in 10' swells, but it ain't fun and I don't want to EVER do it again. I sat on the deck for several minutes and just tried to catch my breath.

Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice (everyone get the hint), practice, practice.......
__________________
Getting closer to leaving every day!
2divers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 14:08   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
I really dislike transom ladders. - fine for climbing into the dink when in harbour, but in a life saving situation, in bad weather, it is the worst place possible to try to get back onboard. For a start you are too close to the propellor. secondly - especially on boats with canoe sterns, or long counters, there is a very great danger of getting slammed by the boat as it reacts to a wave and pitches.

Much better to have the ladder amidships. It is also easier to get the boom or even just the spinaker halliard to the person in the water, and hoik them out. the up and down movement is minimised however on a mono, the rolling could be quite exciting. This might actually be an advantage, as it will get the ladder much deeper into the water and also reduce the amount you have to climb.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 14:18   #29
Eternal Member
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,508
Images: 123
We carry a 10ft. ladder for boarding when med tied. I am going to have to fix a quick install to drop the ladder off the sides. In some nasty weather I can see the ladder that drops off the port stern to get back onto the boat could be a weapon of severe injury trying to board there..........i2f
__________________
SAILING is not always a slick magazine cover!
BORROWED..No single one of is as smart as all of us!
http://sailingwithcancer.blogspot.com/
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2009, 14:32   #30
Registered User
 
captmick39's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yankeetown, FL(boat)Inglis(home)
Boat: P39Hull#72"Schadenfreude"
Posts: 214
more food for MOB "dinner"

Quote:
Originally Posted by S&S View Post
We practice drills, but haven't had to do a "live" pick up. Sorry for the confusion, but it's theory until you have to do it "for real".

A good thing to have is a clip on point at the hatch so you're tethered before you go on deck.
Roger that, either side of that Hatch...wouldn't trust those hatch tracks w/plenty of momentum going over the side...might wind up like a wiley e. coyote in the drink & inbound HATCh to smack ya upside the head, then be a new personal "anchor".

Daytime tethering is weather dependent thing for us- light breeze, flat water ???. Life jackets on deck are required if we're off shore though. Day or night.
Good On Ya! Didn't know, wasn't stated. Have "rescued" in MOB "reality", & BEEN Rescued (had no choice...snared by rig, aloft, & it came down to likely losing Leg, vessel(as in rig) or cut loose, Push off & Splash. FTR, "swimming" in a bosun's chair is like a giant DIAPER...it doesn't work...also hitting really rough seas from 63' in the air (making that 'Swan dive'...more like incredibly painful belly flop...IN That 'diaper') ws far from "painless". (bank on the fact that I wouldn't have been up there if we didn't NEED that antenna serviceable, & Now).

In 72 degree seas bobbing up for air w/ring right in front of me (a very nice toss), wasn't worried about pickup (yes I WAS) as 10 seconds later they disappeared behind a wall of ocean. 10 minutes later, they came racing down a wave & I was paddling arse off to not get keelhauled. 1st cast on the lifesling was right over my shoulder, secured under arms, and got the CRAP yanked outta my back(sprained)...almost instantly. Wasn't real useful at self extrication from that sitrep ('89..age 31 at the time).
Have pulled more than myself from the drink over the lifetime, only 2 were MOB's...2 were from a liferaft after their vessel'd gone to Davey Jones place.

In my case, young, healthy, initially "ain't skeered" mentality, Mother Ocean does some stark reality checks on ya, alone, outta sight of Your buds and a warm dry place in the world. Longest 10 minutes of my life...scarier than birthing babies. Terrifying, even KNOWING You'll "probably get outta this just fine, BE still & be smart".

A crew of 6 total, all hands on deck, it took 3 to drag my sorry skinny butt back topsides, hove to and white water over the decks while the "floor" below me was 1 second practially at the top of the transom and next 30 ft away...trying my hardest to help save my own butt was about as useless as tits on a bore hog.

Everybody below decks sat silent me stripped, wrapped in towels, blankets, cup of tea and still a little shell shocked....along w/lots of marks and looking LIKE I'd been keelhauled. Now still 1 heluva mess outside (blowing 50kts sustained, 25-40 on the seas & getting worse, we'd opted to run away(N) instead of E. which would have been wiser decision (20/20 hindsight). 5hrs later the sun was shining, & we were all shaking heads...water still a foaming & seas far from calm; at least nobody got seasick.

Folks, if You don't get IN the Water for those MOB Drills, and/or "Rescue" real people in those MOB Drills, You're missing at least half the "fun".
As stated previously...You aren't sore next day?
You didn't DO IT Right.
__________________

__________________
captmick39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mob

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MOB Procedures markpj23 Seamanship & Boat Handling 103 06-04-2011 14:48
Real MOB Training ? Cyrus Safdari Seamanship & Boat Handling 9 30-06-2010 12:31
Catamaran MOB GreatKetch Multihull Sailboats 59 25-07-2009 16:58
The Pirate Situation near Singapore and How I Prepared for it tomyang Health, Safety & Related Gear 0 15-04-2003 17:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.