Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-10-2012, 07:25   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Akron, Ohio
Boat: Bristol 29(1967)
Posts: 595
Minimalist Sailing . . . the Boat

I thought it would be fun and worthwhile to see if the discussion on sailing on minimal money can be directed to the actual sailboat, instead of the actual money.

In my mind live-a-board on minimal money is . . . well, evidently rather easy, if ALL we talk about is whether to eat in resturants(sp), dock in a marina or do a lot of touristy things.

But what about trying to live on a paid-for sailboat that will nickel and dime your budget?

Given costs of repairs and equipment replacement(especially in the "marine" environ), wouldn't the budget breaker of a frugal sailor almost always be the cost of actually upkeep or repairing the sailboat? After all, these include all those costs that no one wants to, or can realistically pre-plan for.

My thought of a good minimalist sailboat would be a somewhat slow boat . . . something with a relatively short mast(a good mast-boom ratio "used" sail can be had for a song & dance), very hefty full keel and very little extra equipment(what I call carapp), that can go bad.
__________________

__________________
SURV69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 08:04   #2
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Got to be something like a Tiki 26... or if your into luxury and standing room a Westerly Centaur...
The Tiki is a true minimalist boat... beams are lashed on as are the rudders and rigging... too easy...
Westerly Centaur bilge keels... like the Tiki can be beached for bottom work, simple systems... too easy...
Both can be had for around 6000-10000.... too easy..
Damn... I'm turning into an Aussie.... no worries mate...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 08:12   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Warrnambool, Australia
Posts: 33
Images: 1
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Quote:
Damn... I'm turning into an Aussie.... no worries mate...


You're welcome!
__________________
Kindred Spirits is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 08:15   #4
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,449
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Check out James Baldwins Good Old Boat List:

Atom Voyages - Good Old Boats List

Also, he has lots of other tips to share and stories plus sailing links.

I ended up with a Bristol 27 that I paid $2,000.00 for. I probably have about $6,500.00 in it now but I didn't have to buy that new main I bought. And I tried a 2nd Old diesel before I went ahead and bought a 2012 Mercury outboard.

Example: Pearson Triton For sale CL:

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/3250207253.html

looks like she's a little low there in the stern though for some reason.............
__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 09:46   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Following up on what Boatman said, I owned a Centaur for years. When the engine quit on me in the middle of one Bahamas, trip, I simply continued on under sail for the next few weeks. Eventually, I repowered with an outboard. In the U.S. many of these are selling for as little as a few grand.

I think one of the reasons one does not hear more about specific models of boats however, is that it's as much about how you choose to outfit the boat as the boat itself. The more expensive and complex the systems, the more expensive the costs of maintaining those systms are likely to be.

I also think one can't really separate the boat itself from other expenses. My Centaur for example could fit on and had a trailer, allowing cheaper storage options.

Having owned a Centaur, it's a bit smaller than I'd personally want for full time cruising or live aboard, but if you can live with the space, it's a very solidly built and affordable boat with standing headroom. The bilge keels make it a good choice for shallow areas like the keys and Bahamas. Many have crossed oceans and I read about one that circumnavigated 3 times (though it would not be my choice for blue water cruising)

While I think it's a great value, some things to be aware of if considering a Centaur:

It came in three versions. I personally am not a fan of the 2-quarter berth option because that came at the expense of lazarette space, meaning I ended up using a less convenient bunk for storage. The standing headroom comes at the price of shallow bilges. The earlier versions had a side stay attachment point above the side windows, which would break the window seals, causing window leakage. Tall women and most men will likely find the v-birth a bit short. Also because the chain pipe is far forward where the chain locker is shallow, chain doesn't just fall down the pipe into the locker, but must manually be scooped back into the deeper part of the locker - I ended up making a separate chain locker on deck.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 10:07   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,340
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Bayfield 25 comes to mind. long keel, inboard diesel. One went on Ebay last year for something like $3800 with a trailer! Amazing deal on a little known great boat. If it had been nearby I would have bought it. A trailer for a boat like that is worth about $2000 or more. So that boat cold have been real cheap!

Personally, I think being up near 30 ft for a minimalist boat is good. You pretty much get everything at 30 feet. (two big berths, a head with shower, storage, nav station, galley etc) and yet the boat is easy to handle and maintain.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 11:37   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Concur on a 30' maximum boat for the minimalist. One of the biggest cost items ona boat is the engine. If something serious goes wrong with even a one lounger diesel, you are talking enough money to buy another boat if you had to rebuild it and buy an outboard to rebuild an injector pump. An engine is a nice to have item but necessary. Mites sire sailed his 15 ton boat 1 1/2 times and for 10 years after without an engine and the Pardeys have sailed for 4 decades all over the world without one. Ditching the engine engine opens up a bunch of space that can be used for always needed stowage. I'm talking no engine as even a small outboard needs fuel storage and maintenance. All you need an engine for is getting out of a slip. Back when I had a smaller boat, the outboard moldered in a cockpit locker 'cause I sailed it in and out of the slip, through marinas, in short, everywhere. Have even towed my current boat rowing my dinghy.

A solar panel should keep up with your electrical needs. As far as energy efficiency, 12 volt DC is the way. As much as I love the ambience of kerosene lamps, it can't hold a candle to LED's. A $200 solar panel will get you anywhere in the world, for as long as most of us will want to go.

Still need fossil fuels for cooking. Propane is the most convenient to use but not the most convenient to source or store. Good old kerosene is very efficient, burns hot and yoe can easily store more than a years supply even on a very small boat. The best thing is it's available within walking distance almost everywhere.

It is possible to live way more than a minimalists life on a small boat on social security income and have money left over.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a Pearson 35
roverhi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 11:54   #8
Registered User
 
Travelnik's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nanny State
Boat: 22' Westerly Nomad
Posts: 593
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Westerly Nomad.

Built like a tank.

Twin keels. 2' 4" draft.

6hp to 10hp outboard...No inboard engine expenses! (Plus lots of storage in the engine compartment!)

6' standing headroom.

Small sailplan...cheap sails!

Mast is about 23' tall...cheap standing rigging, and no problem with bridge clearance.

Tabernacle stepped mast...no climbing hassles!

6'3" V-berth, 6'8" Quarter berth.

Enclosed head (No built-in shower though. Solar shower or bucket!)

Galley with 2 burner stove, sink and ice box.

All storage compartments are separated, and watertight. Good for flotation.

Low surface area for bottom paint. Sits on her keels when the tide goes out, so it's a good time to clean and paint!

Sits on a standard 16' flatbed trailer for transport and storage.

Bought it totally restored for $4000. Had it stolen, and abused.

Now restoring her a second time.

Probably not a good long term liveaboard, but a good low-cost sailer!
__________________
Dean - 22' Westerly Nomad - Travelnik
A 14-foot mini-cruiser is minimalist. A 19ft is comfortable, and anything much larger than a 25 borders on ostentatious.
Travelnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 12:19   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

You just described our Cape Dory 25D...I can cruise for the rest of my life on what I saved by not buying a "what the Jones" MUST have to cruise...
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-10-2012, 12:25   #10
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

The ideal (for ongoing cheaper maintanence) would be:-

30' (maybe another couple of feet) - for the headroom and living space and less hard work on passage than smaller.
Sloop - less sails and rigging.
Encapsulated Full Keel - if the keel falls off you likely have bigger problems , but in the meantime no keel bolts to worry about and bumping into stuff not such a biggie.
Solid GRP Deck & Hull - more forgiving of numpty PO's, and in the likely age and price range will have had some of those! Wahoo! no wet core .
Tiller Steering - Less to go wrong.

Given the above (and the odds that buying budget would also be limited), then likely looking at older designs.


Reliable and well sorted Diesel Engine (to start with!) - maintenence is easier and cheaper than constant fixing of something enroute to the knackers yard.

Sails - start off with good and then take care of them will last longer than average.....the price of that may be buying yourself , but you avoid the cost of constant repairs and then replacing crap with crap .

Rigging / chainplates - replace at the getgo and will be far less likely to be picking the mast off the deck at an inconveniant time . and cheaper too .

Seacocks / thruhulls - remove (refurb or replace) and then refit means will not need so many buckets . Sinking your boat really makes a dent in the monthly maintanence budget .

Toys - Less is more - but everyone defines what "Toys" are (aka Carapp in OP speak ) differently, from decadent luxury to very important - for the same items!.....but even the hairshirt sailors have some (or soon do - when money permits less "principles" ).....IMO the key is that nothing onboard is absolutely essential or can't be lived without (even if preffered not to).


IMO really no "best" boat (Model / Design) - as the best choice will be from the "best" that is available at the time wanted......and what grabs ya fancy .

FWIW, although at 30' I do "fail" on a few things listed above - but that's boats for ya! Do I care? Do I feck .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 21:59   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
Check out a video on Vimeo,com called Stand Fast. It is a fun documentary on minimalist sailing.
__________________
hesmysnowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 22:06   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The ideal (for ongoing cheaper maintanence) would be:-

30' (maybe another couple of feet) - for the headroom and living space and less hard work on passage than smaller.
Sloop - less sails and rigging.
Encapsulated Full Keel - if the keel falls off you likely have bigger problems , but in the meantime no keel bolts to worry about and bumping into stuff not such a biggie.
Solid GRP Deck & Hull - more forgiving of numpty PO's, and in the likely age and price range will have had some of those! Wahoo! no wet core .
Tiller Steering - Less to go wrong.

Given the above (and the odds that buying budget would also be limited), then likely looking at older designs.


Reliable and well sorted Diesel Engine (to start with!) - maintenence is easier and cheaper than constant fixing of something enroute to the knackers yard.

Sails - start off with good and then take care of them will last longer than average.....the price of that may be buying yourself , but you avoid the cost of constant repairs and then replacing crap with crap .

Rigging / chainplates - replace at the getgo and will be far less likely to be picking the mast off the deck at an inconveniant time . and cheaper too .

Seacocks / thruhulls - remove (refurb or replace) and then refit means will not need so many buckets . Sinking your boat really makes a dent in the monthly maintanence budget .

Toys - Less is more - but everyone defines what "Toys" are (aka Carapp in OP speak ) differently, from decadent luxury to very important - for the same items!.....but even the hairshirt sailors have some (or soon do - when money permits less "principles" ).....IMO the key is that nothing onboard is absolutely essential or can't be lived without (even if preffered not to).


IMO really no "best" boat (Model / Design) - as the best choice will be from the "best" that is available at the time wanted......and what grabs ya fancy .

FWIW, although at 30' I do "fail" on a few things listed above - but that's boats for ya! Do I care? Do I feck .
I pretty much agree 100%

FRG on the heavier displacement end (heavier construction)

The only thing I would say is that when talking "minimalist" I would consider no engine as an option.

As far as toys? Pretty much none.

- 2 X handheld gps
- Manual watermaker
- Solar power/charging
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2012, 23:32   #13
Registered User
 
CCBullseye's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia, up river from Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Cape Cod Shipbuilders Bullseye
Posts: 106
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

I have put a bid on a 28 ft boat and am thinking about the outfitting thing. I believe in spending money for really good sails, refit the rigging, buy a good sexton, cast my own lead depth sounder with tallow on the bottom to tell what the bottom is like, good compass, LED lights with a solar panel for charging. Self build a windvane steering system, likely rudder trim tab for outboard rudder. I hate the smell of kerosene so I guess I will stick with propane but have a wood fired cabin heater. Spend for the best mattress I can afford for the vee bunk or where the master bunk is. Lots of bookshelf space. I go back and forth about having an engine. The boat currently has one which is not in working order. If I pull it out, that will lighten the boat by 600 pounds, counting getting rid of full fuel tank. I certainly have sailed into and away from docks plenty of times. as far as backing out of a slip, a 5 ton yacht is easy to hand push out of slip. When cruising, what difference does it make if it takes three days to go 100 miles.
__________________
CCBullseye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2012, 01:09   #14
Registered User
 
GaryMayo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Branched Oak Yacht Club, Wife is an Admiral in the Nebraska Navy
Boat: Clipper Marine 32 CC Aft Cabin Ketch
Posts: 1,211
Interesting thread. Many trailer sailboats are what you might call minimal. They are built to tow easily by reducing weight and size.

I owned a mac 25 for a short time. Fun easy to launch and sail. Just too small for my needs.

Looked around for the largest trailerable sailboat I could find, and found a William Crealock designed Clipper Marine 32 ketch center cockpit aft cabin. There were over 500 of these made around 1976, and a few of them survive today in good shape. These are built to be fair weather coastal cruisers, but they have sailed all around the world and back again. Most have a small yanmar diesel.

I see these usually offered for a middle teens price when in good condition. Often times with a trailer.

I love mine. Wonderful sturdy boats that are light enough to pull with a pickup.

To figure out the size of the boat in the photo, it is being pulled with a Ford F-550 with a 17" lift and 24.5" semi wheels.

Click image for larger version

Name:	WaterReflection-1351050234562.jpeg
Views:	311
Size:	138.6 KB
ID:	48764
__________________
W.I.B. Crealock when asked what he thought of the easily trailerable Clipper Marine sailboats by a naval design collegue, Gentelman Bill responded, "I am very proud of them".
www.clippermarine.org & www.clipper-sailor.net
GaryMayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-10-2012, 01:17   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: Minimalist sailing . . . the boat

The first thing I would consider purchasing is a scooter. That's right, a little beat up scooter. Then I would visit enough boat yards and marinas and anchorages to know what a good cheap boat is. I saw an Seawind they were selling off last time I was in Florida. It was a wreck but solid, and ever thing was still on the boat.
If you have the knowledge- get the boat and rebuild her. Then live on her. Use the scooter then for parts retrieval.
See people do it all the time.
See it isn't the boat (as it is said all the time on CF), it's the sailor. Just ask Slocum.
__________________

__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking Of Buying A Boat Near Boston and Sailing Her To Muscongus Bay, Maine Muscongus Monohull Sailboats 7 19-06-2017 16:11
Honduras: Sailing Boat Boarded and Robbed by Pirates foolishsailor Health, Safety & Related Gear 391 25-09-2015 08:20
Learning to Sail on Your Own Boat Jill_Brian Boat Ownership & Making a Living 71 31-08-2014 04:18
Buy a Sailboat, Charter a Sailboat, or Fractional Ownership? Dr. Moreau General Sailing Forum 7 04-09-2012 13:07
Cairns to Perth Part 1 Bartlettsrise Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 1 11-09-2011 00:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.