Mexico. Go or no go?

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

He was operating a yacht delivery company and charter fishing business when he was kidnapped by the locals when he appeared to be showing signs of success. .

Bingo....now it starts to make some sense. Your friend wasn't just a cruiser enjoying Mexico. He was setting up shop and competing with the locals for tourist dollars. That doesn't make what happened to him ok, but it's a LONG way from a Cruiser just enjoying Mexico.

It's also a PERFECT example of how Cruise/Mexico Rumors start.
First we are told a story of how a Cruiser was held for $80K ransom...OMG...cancel my plans for Mexico and that rumor gets told long and wide.

Then we get more of the story and find out your friend wasn't just a cruiser but was competing with the local Mexicans to put food on their table! Does that make it right...of course not. But of course there is never thuggery in the Unions here in the USA when a Scab tries to open up a non-union electrical shop in the heart of Unionville. See how the rumor mill goes...

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Wrong,

You're right, well intentioned input was not what you were seeking.

A rather presumptive comment don't you think?

Actually, I couldn't figure out what "two nearly global circumnavigations" meant, so that phrase got no response from me.

Just what I described. But, let me fill in the blanks for you. If a person nearly completes a global circumnavigation, it at least suggests they stopped somewhere shy of a complete global circumnavigation. In my case I couldn't justify the expense and hassles of passing through the Panama Canal. Twice. Nor did I have any desire to sail 5,000 n.m. from Panama to Hawaii, and another 2,000 n.m. miles to San Francisco - solo. So, I paid to have my boat trucked to the S.F. Bay area from Texas. Twice.

What I will say is that if you believe the violence to be presently escalating in the La Paz area, based on media reports, then stay away from there. Pretty much what I wrote at first, that if you are not comfortable with it, don't do it, whether or not you are graced by dreams to focus you.

I probably should have entitled this 'Mexico, Go or no Go for you? I was not asking people to tell me what I should or should not do. It should have been clear from my introduction my decision to not go was already made. It feels even more to me like the right decision in light of the recent news about Baja which no one here has addressed. I hardly think Zeehag's railing against anything and everything published in the news qualifies.

Finally, what reason do you have to disbelieve the reports? I'll trust their accuracy until such time as Zeehag proves them wrong.

[zeehag]

"I probably should have entitled this 'Mexico, Go or no Go for you? I was not asking people to tell me what I should or should not do. It should have been clear from my introduction my decision to not go was already made. It feels even more to me like the right decision in light of the recent news about Baja which no one here has addressed. I hardly think Zeehag's railing against anything and everything published in the news qualifies.

Finally, what reason do you have to disbelieve the reports? I'll trust their accuracy until such time as Zeehag proves them wrong."

you love to slam folks. i gave generalities which ARE CURRENT.
you are listening to usa news which is incorrect, as fed to usa noozemongers by specific individuals in high drama sites in mexico, not the accurate federal news sites which also fed inaccurate reports, according to those i have visited with and spoken with here as they sail south at this cruising time of year..
believe what you may. we dont want you here. stay away.
unloes syopu are interested in enjoyng a lovely and decent place, stay the hell out of mexico.

i am not responsible for proving your koolade as acid, that is your own job.
however you are a drinker of same, so you will never know.
not my fault.
not my problem
not my ignorance
i am not inaccurate in info i post. i was one who helped them in their time of post hurricane shock. i also sent warnings of wind higher than they were advised to expect.
it seems the chip on your not yet sailing shoulder is immense.
do not bash folks for knowing the real deal when you refuse to learn anything about the place and the inhabitants.
ignorance is ignorance no matter how much faux nooze you watch. is not MY perspective of a situation you need to fear or doubt, it is your own ignorance of same. sorry.

i find these verbalzed phobias of mexico humorous. if ye are afeered of mexico, stay the hell out.
go around.
it is only a 5 week sail from san diego to costa rica in a 30 ft boat. enjoy. if you dont wanna visit violent mexico, you certainly do not want to visit rebellious and warring salvador or honduras or guatamala or any other central american country constantly undergoing civil wars

[Kenomac]

3 day, Zee and Jim,

Your points are well taken and I agree with your assessment regarding our friend.

Ken

But..... My wife and I were actually robbed during our visit down there, just doing the tourist stuff, not bothering anyone.

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

But..... My wife and I were actually robbed during our visit down there, just doing the tourist stuff, not bothering anyone.

You have some bad luck, robbed twice in Mexico and a home invasion in Massachusetts(I assume). Pretty sure you already made the lifetime quota...

[Jim Cate]

But..... My wife and I were actually robbed during our visit down there, just doing the tourist stuff, not bothering anyone.

I regret being repetitious, KEn, but didn't you say that you were robbed while enjoying a resort? Again, that is a different environment from cruising (as I know it).

An analogous story with a different slant: Back in the 90's, good friends of ours returned to California from several years cruising in Mexico, where they had had no problems with crime of any sort. Their first night back in the SF area they went to dinner in Point Richmond. Leaving the restaurant around 10 pm, they were robbed at gunpoint.

Draw whatever conclusion from this misadventure that you wish. I say that these two experiences sort of cancel out, and that one can run afoul of nastyness anywhere if one's luck is bad. One can minimize bad luck by paying attention to local knowledge and having "street smarts", but one can't totally eliminate the chance for bad experiences.

I feel quite safe on the streets around here (Pittwater) at night. Twenty-odd miles away in some areas of Sydney I would feel differently, and with good reason. So, I don't go there!

Well, enough of this. Everyone must do their own risk analysis, and it is not productive to advise others on these subjects... much too personal a thing.

Jim

[JPA Cate]

Wrong,

Well, so far, I see that you denigrate posters with Mexico experience, which I find distasteful, and that you now say you want to know if some would avoid it and/or some would go.

I would return to Mexico, AND I would pay close attention to where "bad stuff" is happening. Sort of like I wouldn't wander around downtown Oakland alone in the middle of the night, either.

Also, if you speak no Spanish, I think it would be more difficult.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Opie91

You have some bad luck, robbed twice in Mexico and a home invasion in Massachusetts(I assume). Pretty sure you already made the lifetime quota...

That does change our perspective.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Wrong,

Well, so far, I see that you denigrate posters with Mexico experience, which I find distasteful, and that you now say you want to know if some would avoid it and/or some would go.

Bring said denigration forward for all to see. As for the second part of the statement. Your words, not mine. However your understanding is close enough. You may try going back to my intro to this thread and try to understand what I said. Including the fact I have been to Mexico twice and have experience of my own. Your statement above contradicts this fact and seems to suggest I am not properly gesticulating to those "with Mexico experience". Now, that wouldn't be you would it?

I would return to Mexico, AND I would pay close attention to where "bad stuff" is happening. Sort of like I wouldn't wander around downtown Oakland alone in the middle of the night, either.

O.K.

Also, if you speak no Spanish, I think it would be more difficult.

Funny you should say this. On the occasion of my last visit to La Paz I was acccompanied by a Mexican national who sailed with me to the Marquesas. She spoke excellent English, was born and raised in La Paz and it may surprise you spoke excellent Spanish. Still didn't help in avoiding the extraction of mordida from me though, because it was the port captain who performed the deed. Really, an interesting story. But, I'll save it for another time.

[zengirl]

Originally Posted by Wrong

I abandoned plans to sail southward in October or November, 2014 due to a recent dream recalling graft and corruption I encountered in countries during two previous near global circumnavigations. At the top of the list, because it would be my first landfall sailing toward the Marquesas, is Mexico. I was stung twice, once on each of two seperate visits by incidents involving mordida in La Paz. Immigration and the port captain facilitated the successful attempts to extract these payments from me. The increasing level level of violence in Mexico was also a consideration. Moreso after the recent murder of 43 students involving Mexican officials and a 'gang'.

Additional justification for my concerns arrived in news articles published over the last few days recording elevated levels of violence in Cabo San Lucas and La Paz.

Killings Surge in Mexico State at Tip of Baja - ABC News

WOW!! Aren't you glad you asked? They jump on this s@$#t fast!

[JimR]

I think that there is misinformation regarding checking into Mexico in one of these posts. According to Latitude 38 Mexican law requires that you check in at a port of entry before entering a port that is not a port of entry. I think that is common the world over. I understand that Latitude 38 gets a waver for the Baja Ha Ha.

I have lived on my boat in Ensenada for a couple of years. The port is part of the tourist zone. The security here is superb. The security people have warned me about a couple of people after seeing me talk to them. I have a car and have traveled the length of Baja without incident and have never felt threatened. I am 84 and am treated with the courtesy and deference for age that was common in the states when I was young. In the states I'm shoved aside if I can't go fast enough.

[mrlee]

YOU GO ZEEHAG!!! I am not that familiar with the west coast...I have lived in Tampico for almost 8 years now...Hell, we know this is not the USA with 20 cops on every corner and for what? We learn to deal with our environment just as we had to learn to deal with it up there. Life skills 101! Go ahead and bring your ass down to Mexico, find a local to hang with and LEARN! Then you are set for most of the rest of the world...It's all the same...people are people except here...we live in paradise...
If any of you guys have any issues here...find a fed or a soldier...they are everywhere now so there are not too many problems...
Peace to you all...visit me in Cozumel in 2015!

[nigel1]

Folks, a number of posts have been pulled from this thread, as just not nice.

What could be a useful thread is fast becoming some sort of feud, which is not what we are about.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by zengirl

WOW!! Aren't you glad you asked? They jump on this s@$#t fast!

"s@$#t"???

My intention in this thread is to promote discussion about the potential effect recent developments may have on cruisers; and whether or not anyone considering sailing to Mexico should include them in their decisionmaking process. But, I see no evidence any posters followed the link in my introductory post. So, here's an excerpt of the news story.

I find it hard to believe anyone but the most isolated people who seldom if ever read news reports about Mexico would not be alarmed by the fact drug gangs have apparently brought their war over the control of the drug trade to Baja.

"Killings Surge in Mexico State at Tip of Baja
MEXICO CITY — Nov 26, 2014, 10:53 AM ET
By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN and KATHERINE CORCORAN Associated Press"


"The normally bucolic, vacationer-crowded state at the tip of Mexico's Baja peninsula has become a battleground, with dozens of killings in a power struggle following the capture of drug lord Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman nearly a year ago.

The bloodshed has been concentrated in La Paz, the capital of Baja California Sur state. In the latest killings, two men bound, gagged and showing signs of torture were dumped onto streets in exclusive neighborhoods Sunday and another person was found shot to death Tuesday.

The local newspaper El Sudcaliforniano, which puts the mounting death toll in each headline on stories about violence, has reported 46 homicides in and around the city so far this year. That doesn't include the apparent shooting victim on a La Paz sidewalk Tuesday. Federal statistics through October counted 48 killings for the entire state.

Baja California Sur is better known for its beaches and Los Cabos resorts that draw thousands of American tourists. But since last year it has experienced a level of drug violence it had previously been spared.

Many of the cases have been gangland style killings, victims bound, shot, strangled or burned inside a car. Mexican authorities say it is the result of a battle for control of the drug trade since Guzman's February arrest and several other high-profile takedowns in the past year of leadership in Mexico's powerful Sinaloa Cartel.

A law enforcement official, who could not be quoted by name because of security reasons, told The Associated Press in October that criminal factions were competing for power. "It appears they're still working out how all this is going to fit together," he said.

It is not clear why the war among factions of the Sinaloa Cartel, named for the Pacific coast state where it was founded, had jumped the Gulf of California to Baja California Sur. But the cartel long battled the once-powerful Arellano Felix gang for control of drug routes on the Baja peninsula into the U.S. and is largely considered to have taken over the territory. Some of Sinaloa's biggest marijuana growing and warehousing operations have been found in Baja California Norte state close to the U.S. border, under which the cartel has built elaborate underground tunnels for smuggling.

The law enforcement official said a new generation was stepping forward that included the sons of Guzman and Sinaloa boss Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada.""

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Guy

So check in at Ensenada. It is about as cut and dried as it can get. With your luck, you will probably get the red light and they will board your boat.
Don't be one of these guy's who think you don't need to check out of the US, get your fishing tag and tip freely.

Problems are rarely encountered when clearing into countries. The problems develop when checking out. This is because corrupt officials know when you are most vulnerable and likely to acquiesce to demands for mordida, consideration or theft of your funds by any other name.

You need documentation required by authorities at your next port of call, and your passport is under the control of whoever demands a little extra for themselves, or fees in excess of what's normally required.

Anyone sailing to the South Pacific via Mexico typically plans to remain in Mexico for 4-6 months before resuming their trip south. So, Cabo San Lucas, La Paz or points on the mainland west coast are common points of departure. Not Ensenada. Some may be willing to sail some distance in order to clear from a 'reputable' port. Others will clear from the nearest authorized port. Experiences will vary, and if there's one thing Mexico is famous for, it's the unpredictible, ever changing landscape in regard to procedure.