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Old 02-02-2016, 14:11   #16
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Thanks Bill. We do have the safe links and find they perform as advertised. I was more wondering and letting the op know that checking if the other model will work with his plotter is pretty important. Ours work well with our Raymarine e9 plotter (alarm and mob position etc) and also activate in the spinlock jackets. I have seen one that also looked good, I think German, that has water activation. Hopefully they will add plb functionality to these as well for all round security.
Thank you, Monte.

Understood.

The Yachting World article I previously mentioned also covered the WeatherDock AG easyONE I believe you are referencing. It looks very good as well, and the water activation is intriguing...

The article also discussed adding PLB functionality resulting in an AIS/GPS/VHF-DSC, the hurdles, and their projection of 2017 as a possible release date.

Hoping you never need to activate these device for real...

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 02-02-2016, 14:28   #17
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

Another way of looking at this, DSC H/H radio allows for SOS all ships setting off the DSC alarm, two way com's, the unit can be remotely polled for GPS position from another unit, floats and has water activated strobe. This gives me everything I want for MOB and is cheaper than the dedicated devices. It is also useful in 'everyday life' which I like because people then notice if anything is wrong rather than doing an annual service. I now have one for each crew switched on as they go on watch and put in the charger when they com off.
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Old 02-02-2016, 15:12   #18
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
Bill, thanks for your link to the Yachting Monthly review, and your follow-up in a later post. And I like your procedure for annually testing the MOB beacon. Question: how do you carry all those devices on your PFDs? Each one is small, but when you put them all together they are a lot of gear. Doesn't that become rather cumbersome for ordinary life on the boat?
Dr. Sea,

We use an add-on Spinlock pocket attached to our Spinlock PFDs to hold the PLB. We standardized on the belt pocket model so we could transfer it to other PFDs we might wear. [i.e., the Belt pockets don't have proprietary attachments like the Spinlock triangular pockets do...]

It is a lot of stuff, [not unlike a cop's equipment belt tossed into a fanny pack...] but we justify the habit of keeping it on us when transiting on the boat, paddling kayaks, and on shore because we only have about 10 minutes to self-rescue in the water temps we boat in [unless we are wearing our Kokotat dry-suits...] so expedience is crucial.

Detailing what is stored where:

The AIS transmitter is mounted inside of the inflatable PFD.

The PLB, aerial flares, spare knife w/ magnesium fire starter, 900 lumen combo flashlight/strobe/SOS [penlight size], Laser flare [penlight size], DSC-VHF, etc. all fit easily [tethered] in the belt pouch.

When properly packed, it is easy to retrieve the item you want without everything else falling out... [e.g., flashlight, laser flare, and 3 aerial flares are all affixed in series (using simple loop knots- one on each end of each tubular device) on one length of small diameter bungie cord. Pull out the cord and you have the flashlight on the end. Remove an aerial flare from the bungie to fire it, etc.] This belt pack concept is a holdover from our sea kayak touring days...

We issue similar kits to guests paddling or going ashore, and those include a FSR [Family Service Radio] for inter away party and ship-to-party comms.

They are instructed how and when to use each item in case the mother ship is 'struck by a meteorite' while they are away...

You should see our bail-out bags...

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 02-02-2016, 15:21   #19
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by roland stockham View Post
Another way of looking at this, DSC H/H radio allows for SOS all ships setting off the DSC alarm, two way com's, the unit can be remotely polled for GPS position from another unit, floats and has water activated strobe. This gives me everything I want for MOB and is cheaper than the dedicated devices. It is also useful in 'everyday life' which I like because people then notice if anything is wrong rather than doing an annual service. I now have one for each crew switched on as they go on watch and put in the charger when they com off.
Ronald,

That is a viable approach as well. We had considered it, but for various reasons decided we would rather have a shared common [Int'l] MMSI number on our portable DSC-VHF radios instead of a unique one for each. [We wanted to poll our own VHFs individually as needed- which I believe is what you are describing.]

I think anything that can alert crew on most any vessel is a win for the person taking the unplanned swim...

Here's hoping you never need to poll any of your VHFs in an emergency...

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 02-02-2016, 16:33   #20
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by wrwakefield View Post
Dr. Sea, We use an add-on Spinlock pocket attached to our Spinlock PFDs to hold the PLB.
The Spinlock belt pack is a good idea. I wasn't familiar with he Greatland Laser Flare, but I've been looking at the Ocean Signal Rescueme Edf1 Electronic Distress Flare. It is omni-directonal including overhead to be seen by an airplane or helicopter, and it claims to be visible for 7 miles, but it only lasts for 6 hours. I found it at Pricefalls for $101 USD.
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Old 02-02-2016, 17:02   #21
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
The Spinlock belt pack is a good idea. I wasn't familiar with he Greatland Laser Flare, but I've been looking at the Ocean Signal Rescueme Edf1 Electronic Distress Flare. It is omni-directonal including overhead to be seen by an airplane or helicopter, and it claims to be visible for 7 miles, but it only lasts for 6 hours. I found it at Pricefalls for $101 USD.
I've always liked that flare because is is very bright. The downside [from memory] is the proprietary battery and it isn't [yet?] USCG approved as a replacement for pyrotechnics like the Sirius light is [which only flashes SOS and is much dimmer, and requires the day signal flag for USCG compliance.]

The plus for both lights is 360 signaling.

The minus for both is size [for carrying on person] and 360 signaling... [which blinds the user...]

Our Spinlock vests have a built-in flashing light [not a strobe...] on a wand that deploys above and behind the wearer's head. Visibility from a mile away was good. [Testing was done on land.]

We also keep an ACR firefly in the belt pouch [With Lithium AA batteries...]

The laser flare will range 5-20+ miles.

Between the laser, Firefly xenon strobe and the quick-flash/SOS built into our waterproof [adjustable] lumen flashlights, I feel we are well covered. It would be nice to find a miniature version of the EDF1 that took standard batteries for inclusion in the arsenal...

May we never need to use any of these devices in an emergency...

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 02-02-2016, 18:47   #22
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

Bill, have you ever tested the ACR Firefly? I've got a couple of them but have never tested them to see how much visibility they produce.
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Old 02-02-2016, 20:34   #23
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

The Ocean Signal MOB1 will send a DSC message back to the boat that you just came off (assuming that you programmed your MMSI in the MOB). It will also send out an all ships notice as well. You have the option of manually transmitting an all ships notice by pressing a button too.

One of the nice features of the MOB1 is that you can reprogram the MMSI in your MOB1 unit if you crew on different boats, charter boats or spend time on someone else's boat.

Programming is very easy with the new software that was released a couple of months ago, takes about 1 minute to perform and can be done via a smart phone, tablet or PC. When programming the unit make sure to have the brightness on your device turned up since it is using an optical eye.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Joe
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Old 02-02-2016, 21:08   #24
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Sea View Post
Bill, have you ever tested the ACR Firefly? I've got a couple of them but have never tested them to see how much visibility they produce.
Dr. Sea, I haven't tested the Firefly for distance visibility.

They are quite bright xenon strobes (at least the generations we have...) Their website claimes 3.5 miles, and I suspect it would be even further from the air...

The year we tested the Spinlock Pylon lights was the year we gave the Deckvests to ourselves for Christmas. We were at our house in the mountains which is on a long unlit straight-away on a ridge...

Adding to our drift- from a recent discussion I participated in on Sailnet- I am considering adding a SCUBA diver inflatable signal 'sausage' to the mix [think Dan Buoy] and attaching a Firefly to the top of it [via an existing grommet] would be an option.

The sausage I'm leaning toward is the Oceanic PSD because it can also be a back-up PFD.

The XS SMB is a close second, but has no provision to zip on as a back-up PFD.

I may purchase one of each to see which can be better folded in with the flaked inflatable PFD bladder. [vs. storing it in the already full belt pouch...]

Another light: Spinlock has a new [to me...] water activated backlight made to attach to the wearer's side of an inflatable PFD bladder, making the entire vest glow. Interesting... We will have to experiment with these as well...

More considerations that won't apply to everyone or all situations.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 02-02-2016, 21:19   #25
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by Jbauschka View Post
The Ocean Signal MOB1 will send a DSC message back to the boat that you just came off (assuming that you programmed your MMSI in the MOB). It will also send out an all ships notice as well. You have the option of manually transmitting an all ships notice by pressing a button too.

One of the nice features of the MOB1 is that you can reprogram the MMSI in your MOB1 unit if you crew on different boats, charter boats or spend time on someone else's boat.

Programming is very easy with the new software that was released a couple of months ago, takes about 1 minute to perform and can be done via a smart phone, tablet or PC. When programming the unit make sure to have the brightness on your device turned up since it is using an optical eye.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Joe
Thanks, Joe,

That is excellent to know and great engineering.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 09-02-2016, 19:43   #26
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

I looked at a number of reviews and options (PLB, DSC equipped VHF radio, Smartfind S20, Ocean Signal MOB1) for ocean racing and ended up purchasing a PLB and am considering the Smartfind S20. One of the key factors for me was the transmit power. As much as the concept of an integrated DCS and AIS with the Ocean Signal MOB1 is just what I was looking for, it transmits DCS at 0.5W and the AIS at 1W where a DCS equipped radio will transmit at 5W and the Smartfind S20 will transmit AIS at 2W. Something to think about. The other factor is what is on the boat you are on as it is the most likely recovery option - if it doesn't have AIS obviously and personal AIS transponder doesn't make much sense.
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Old 09-02-2016, 22:09   #27
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

Gcsiv, you are the first to bring up the transmission power of these two MOB beacons. I'm counting on my boat being rather close to me if I were to go overboard, but I wonder what the range of these two beacons would be.
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Old 10-02-2016, 12:54   #28
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

Sorry that I don't know but they both use VHF frequencies and will be "line of sight", so a proxy would be VHF radio ranges for 2W vs .5W. Others may know.
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Old 10-02-2016, 14:45   #29
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

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Originally Posted by gcsiv View Post
I looked at a number of reviews and options (PLB, DSC equipped VHF radio, Smartfind S20, Ocean Signal MOB1) for ocean racing and ended up purchasing a PLB and am considering the Smartfind S20. One of the key factors for me was the transmit power. As much as the concept of an integrated DCS and AIS with the Ocean Signal MOB1 is just what I was looking for, it transmits DCS at 0.5W and the AIS at 1W where a DCS equipped radio will transmit at 5W and the Smartfind S20 will transmit AIS at 2W. Something to think about. The other factor is what is on the boat you are on as it is the most likely recovery option - if it doesn't have AIS obviously and personal AIS transponder doesn't make much sense.
Gcsiv,

Good observations regarding the Tx wattage of the various units.

Recalling from my HAM days that Tx wattage is only as effective as the antenna and ground system [and with the ocean as our ground, I suspect the antenna is the primary limiting factor in this case...] I revisited the Yachting World article I linked in an earlier post in this thread to review whether they tested range.

Here is what they had to say about range of the devices they tested:

Quote:
A surprising range

I made several tests on the range of each device and in different circumstances and found little notable difference between units. Within the harbour, devices set off at water level were not detected at a range of half a mile from a receiving aerial at mast height. Along a cliff line this range was up to a mile, and over a sandy headland the signal was lost at two miles.

On open water the results for all sets were astoundingly good. I tested up to three-and-a-half miles with the AIS devices in the water and the receiving aerial at just over 14m high. On all occasions all sets continued to produce strong and regular updated information to the receiving AIS plotter at intervals of less than one minute.

Watching from my man overboard position with the devices at water level, the yacht with the receiver was no longer visible from two miles away.

I had expected to see some variance in the performance across the devices in this area, however all sets performed well enough to save your life. These tests were picked up by other passing vessels and also showed up on the marine traffic website.
I'm also reminded that the homing frequency signal [121.5MHz] transmitted by EPIRBS [and used by rescuers when zeroing-in on the EPIRB location using RDF] transmits using only milliwatts of power [e.g., 25-100mW or 0.1 watts max] and is reportedly received at ranges of 5-10 miles at sea and 10-20 miles in the air.

Therefore, while I agree with you in principal that higher wattage must be better, I don't see any supporting evidence that it offers a measurable difference in performance [except maybe battery life...]

In case this is useful.

Cheers!

Bill
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Old 10-02-2016, 16:17   #30
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Re: McMurdo vs Ocean Signal MOB AIS comparison?

Good input and clarification. Thx
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