Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-12-2015, 01:42   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Shouldn't they already be getting paid for it through marina fees? It's not as though the cost of that work area increases through use by the service providers. If they are charging the boat owner a daily fee for occupying the work area, that should cover the cost of the work area regardless of who is doing the work in it.
The odd part is charging the boat owner directly but that could be a misreading of the bill (did the service provider list out the fee that was charged to the service provider directly?) or by tying it to the boat, if the service provider makes a mess of things and leaves, the marina can put a lien against the boat.

Thier definetly is a cost to the marina. Even though officially, they are not affiliated, if there is a problem, the marina can expect to be pulled into it. Also, they need to track who is coming and going.

No reason the service provider should expect to get a free place to set up shop.
__________________

__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 01:46   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Of course not. The left, er, west coast is a model/picture of reasonableness.
Of course lol.
I've seen that type of fee in a couple of boatyards, can't remember any in marinas but see below.

Hey fstbttms, this will amuse you. I've got a diver I know in Florida who swims into one marina to clean boats because he refuses to pay that marinas surcharge,
__________________

__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 04:37   #48
Registered User
 
chrtucke's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Leopard 42 Sailing Cat
Posts: 57
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul View Post
Sometimes I have been known to work on " friends" boats in upscale marinas
Great, how are you with AC/Refrigeration and are you anywhere near Fort
Myers Beach, FL???
__________________
chrtucke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 04:53   #49
Registered User
 
chrtucke's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Leopard 42 Sailing Cat
Posts: 57
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
The odd part is charging the boat owner directly but that could be a misreading of the bill (did the service provider list out the fee that was charged to the service provider directly?) or by tying it to the boat, if the service provider makes a mess of things and leaves, the marina can put a lien against the boat.

Thier definetly is a cost to the marina. Even though officially, they are not affiliated, if there is a problem, the marina can expect to be pulled into it. Also, they need to track who is coming and going.

No reason the service provider should expect to get a free place to set up shop.
No, it is simply "part of the bill"...it's not called out separately. I'm sure the marina would claim that the slip renter isn't being charged the contractor is being charged however in the billing process the contractor simply submits their bill and the marina adds their fee to it so whose paying it, me or the contractor.

As for how they fill up the slips...I doubt anyone reads this part of the "fine print" before signing up - nor do they advertise this in their marketing efforts. I am aware of a number of long term folks that have left once this policy is directly enforced on them and a few that regularly work around it. My schedule doen't allow me too much flexibility to pull off the dock here for a "few days" at a time just to deal with something minor like this.

As I said before, I don't have a problem with them making money and/or running the business how they see fit...I agree that I have the right to go elsewhere - although in my case that's more limited, but that's not their problem - I was simply trying to get a gauge of what "common practice" is in the industry and it sounds like this is a bit excessive though not completely out of line. Again, if it's a service they offer I understand it...I also get that they need to control who is "working" in the marina and cover themselves from a liability perspective. However, I would argue that my monthly slip fee should give me some "access to the dock" to maintain my vessel...after all do you have to pay a "service fee" to an HOA or apartment community when you have a plumber come out?

Anyway, thanks for the input gang...be well.

Side note:
I recently learned that this same marina requires that I use "their diver service" for any in water needs/work. They recently changed over to a different hull service and there was a one-time start up fee which I got charged for! Again, if they require it then they are managing the relationship and the change over fee should be absorbed by them as part of doing business and providing the service. Now, if I were given the choice of using them to manage it or having my own guy come in that would be different but that is not the case. Again, they do it how they want. AND when there is an issue they want me to work it out with the diver myself! They charge to "manage" the service but then leave it to me to ensure QA!!
__________________
chrtucke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 05:49   #50
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,062
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mausgras View Post

I was recently bullied into a far more unethical practise. I wanted to buy and install some electronics but I did not feel competent enough to install it myself. I got a quote from the only local contractor capable of doing the job. It was at the very high end due to the price he was charging for the equipment. I could have bought it for half the price on eBay. So I planned to buy it separately until I was told he might refuse to install it if I did not also purchase it through him. Hmm!!


This is extremely common and for some reasons you may not have thought about, obviously he makes money on selling the equipment, but if he installs equipment you bring in, who is responsible when and or if it doesn't work? Who pays for the trouble shooting to ensure it's bad equipment and not a bad install? You willing to pay him full price if things don't work? What will your attitude be when things don't work? Supplier will most likely try to say it was incorrectly installed or damaged during installation, often owner supplied electronics has no warranty as it wasn't bought from an authorized re-seller, list goes on and on. Most have learned two things, if you insist on supplying the equipment your likely a cheap skate, and it is often far more trouble than it's worth.
I take the belief if I buy it at the best price possible, I'm installing it myself which always saves money, often results in a better install and I am real familiar with the install when the day comes that it needs fixing.

But think of it this way, do you take your own parts with your car when you have it worked on, or your own medical supplies with you to the Dr's office or Hospital?
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 06:04   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,886
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrtucke View Post
No, it is simply "part of the bill"...it's not called out separately. I'm sure the marina would claim that the slip renter isn't being charged the contractor is being charged however in the billing process the contractor simply submits their bill and the marina adds their fee to it so whose paying it, me or the contractor.
So it was what I thought. The service provider is simply highlighting the commission he pays to work within the marina by listing it out seperately on the bill. Yes, in the end you pay but as mentioned before, you are getting a deal because the providers prices would be much higher if he maintained a dedicated on the water base of operations.

Very common. You can debate if the percentage is appropriate but really this is between the service provider and the marina. He's just pulling you in the middle in the hopes of stiring up trouble.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 07:08   #52
Registered User
 
chrtucke's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SW Florida
Boat: Leopard 42 Sailing Cat
Posts: 57
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
So it was what I thought. The service provider is simply highlighting the commission he pays to work within the marina by listing it out seperately on the bill. Yes, in the end you pay but as mentioned before, you are getting a deal because the providers prices would be much higher if he maintained a dedicated on the water base of operations.

Very common. You can debate if the percentage is appropriate but really this is between the service provider and the marina. He's just pulling you in the middle in the hopes of stiring up trouble.

I hear you and would agree if not for the fact that I am already paying for water-front access at a local premium, in my slip fee. I guess this is just one of those things in life that you either accept or don't do business with them and if enough folks complain about it maybe they will change the policy. Oh well...have a good one.
__________________
chrtucke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 07:43   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: California Coast
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 331
Posts: 680
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

What a rip-off!
__________________
Liam Wald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 08:24   #54
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
You are looking at it from the wrong perspective. The service provider gains a huge benefit from being able to set up shop in the marina. If the service provider had to buy thier own waterfront site with parking, building and slips, it could easily run into the millions.
I submit that it is you who are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Marine services are mobile because in the very great majority of cases, it doesn't make sense to bring the boat to a topside detailer or a hull cleaner or a mechanic or a sailmaker or a rigger etc., etc., etc. It is much easier, more convenient and less expensive for these services to come to the boat. And how attractive would any marina be if they did not allow these services to come to their tenants?

Further, the service provider is not "setting up shop" in a marina. He is temporarily working aboard a boat in a slip that has already been rented by the mutual customer. What you are suggesting is akin to an apartment building owner charging the plumber to come in and fix a leaky faucet for one of his renters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Also, there is also the issue of association. If there is a problem with a provider, the marina often gets drug into it.
Not true at all. Marinas typically make no claim about the veracity of the service providers they allow on to the property, other than that they have jumped through whatever insurance hoops the marina requires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Why should the service provider EXPECT to get access to a lucrative customer base for free?
The marina doesn't own the customer base. It is not theirs to dole out as they see fit and I suspect most boat owners see it that way as well.

But the bottom line is that any service provider who is being charged to do work in a particular marina is simply going to pass that fee along to the customer. It's the boat owner who is getting screwed, not the service provider.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 08:30   #55
Marine service provider
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 4,030
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrtucke View Post
Great, how are you with AC/Refrigeration and are you anywhere near Fort
Myers Beach, FL???
I do know my way around them pretty well however I am 3,277 miles away from you.
__________________
newhaul is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 13:10   #56
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
It was me, and the great majority of marinas in California DO NOT have boatyards attached, and only those few that are "grandfathered-in" are related, business-wise. This is the law (not my opinion) and and as someone who has earned his living working in them for several decades (as opposed to someone from out of state who merely temporarily kept his boat in one), I assure you it is the case.
You have a way of restating things exact opposite of what the person said. I said many BOATYARDS have marinas attached. I didn't say that many marinas have boatyards attached. Apples and oranges.

Of course there are tons of marinas that are not boatyards, too. I just know of many BOATYARDS that have marinas attached.

Oh--and there's a brand new boatyard going into West Point Harbor (marina) in San Francisco Bay right now.
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 14:03   #57
Marine Service Provider
 
fstbttms's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 3,594
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
I didn't say that many marinas have boatyards attached.
Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
Many (if not most) marinas in California do have boatyards attached.
__________________
fstbttms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 17:35   #58
Registered User
 
svHyLyte's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tampa Bay area, USA
Boat: Beneteau First 42
Posts: 3,434
Images: 25
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
I...the great majority of marinas in California DO NOT have boatyards attached, and only those few that are "grandfathered-in" are related, business-wise. This is the law...
Citation please. Lexis doesn't seem to be able to find such a "law"...
__________________
"It is not so much for its beauty that the Sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
svHyLyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 17:50   #59
Registered User
 
mausgras's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Thailand and Laos
Boat: Bavaria 37 (2007)
Posts: 448
Images: 17
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

"Marina with boatyard attached" or "boatyard with marina attached" aren't they the same thing.
It doesn't matter what the relative sizes are if they are the same company.
If they are different companies then they are independent services conveniently located adjacent to each other.
Unless one service leases an amenity such as land from the other. In this case| is it then an acceptable practise or even legal for the leassor to levy a fee in order to use the services of the of the leassee.

from my GT-N7100 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
"Be yourself, everyone else is already taken." - Oscar Wilde
mausgras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2015, 18:23   #60
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: Marina fees, common or gauging?

I think the boatyards just end up growing/having marinas alongside them because of the need for working docks and whatnot. Marinas, OTOH, are in the business of providing berths whether or not anyone has a need to work on the boat.

Work docks do bring in quite a bit of money, so that logic extends to working on boats in slips (in some places) too.

PS to fstbttms:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Really? edited to add--don't you know how to edit quotes yet???? hehehehe
Wow--you edited what I wrote only you didn't bother to admit it. It's silly to mess with people, don't you have something more positive and productive to do, like maybe clean some boats?

I had to go back and see what I wrote in post 41 just in case I was citing myself backwards. Nope. re-read.

I'm not sure who it was that said marinas and boatyards had to be separate businesses in CA--many (if not most) boatyards in California do have marinas attached and while "technically" they're different businesses on paper, they're co-mingled by having the same owners and managers.
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fees

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fees? What fees? northoceanbeach General Sailing Forum 28 19-10-2014 11:19
Interactive map of moorage fees/marina facilities/anchorages pistolen08 General Sailing Forum 2 03-03-2013 08:03
Is There a Cost of Marina Fees Index for the Caribbean? Green23 Atlantic & the Caribbean 7 05-09-2009 08:22
Gauging Interest in a Multi-Forum Rally / Race Event CharlieCobra General Sailing Forum 0 08-04-2008 11:14



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.