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Old 25-04-2010, 20:35   #46
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Getting sails down will almost for sure result in a sheet, or two, overboard. When you put the engine in gear, the odds of wrapping a line in the prop, or chopping up your MOB, are too good for me, hence recovery under sail only.
I usually turn on my engine before I get my sails down as a matter of course - it's very rare that a sheet goes overboard in the process - I've never had one go into the prop. This isn't to much of a concern for me - a quick look over each side before starting the engine.

Injury to the MoB is a concern - perhaps kill the engine once you are along side the MoB? - certainly take it out of gear.

I believe it is important to keep your options open. Sometimes it may be more prudent to sail back to the MoB, sometimes it will be more prudent to motor.

Most training organisations will advocate the use of the motor, but will teach a sailing recovery method for the occasions where the engine fails or where it is not prudent to use it. These occaisions (in my opinion) will be very rare indeed.
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Old 26-04-2010, 05:37   #47
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Bewitched,

Good points. I should have added that getting sails down amid the frenzied activity of a MOB could result in sheets overboard.
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Old 26-04-2010, 06:23   #48
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Great thread! I am lurker that longs one day to be an off shore sailer. However today I am a pro white water kayaker and a raft guide trip leader on the Ocoee River home of the 96 Oylmpic white water events. MOB is a part of my profession! :-) I could not imagine not being able to get back in my own raft or yacht by some means when the boat is stoped. If there is a chance of swimming then a PFD and dry suit if needed should be on each person. We use a throw rope which is a 75'-100' rope in a bag that can be thrown. If the person in the H20 graps it and floats on their back they will plane up and be able to breath due to an air pocket. Sure you can not hold on all day but it would give a person time to stop the boat by what ever the best means is. It is a cheap tool that I will use in addition to all recommended here.
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Old 26-04-2010, 11:15   #49
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As the MOB, flopping into a dinghy is do-able, and buys you time if you can get out of the water, and as you said, getting aboard from a dinghy is easier.
I haven't read the rest of the thread and I'm sure someone has pointed out that this doesn't work if the MOB is either unconscious or injured (which you know, of course).

But even if neither is true, this can be a daunting task.

I was sailing a few years ago in a wee Laser II with a freeboard of about what -- 10 inches? I dumped and had some difficulty keeping the boat upright long enough to climb back in.

By the time I had the boat upright and facing into the wind, I no longer had the strength to climb back in -- all I could do was hang on the gunwale. (Eventually I made it, but it was that experience that made me move into keelboats.)

I think climbing back into a dinghy (freeboard of about a foot or so) could be equally difficult, especially if the sea is bouncy. (I had smooth water and was not contending with anything more than a gusty wind.)

Not saying it's a bad idea. But I wouldn't count on it.


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Old 26-04-2010, 19:21   #50
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Another point worth bringing up is how little the MoB will be able to do for themselves.

Because I do a bit of offshore racing, I have to do certain training courses every now and then. One involves messing about in a swimming pool and trying to get into a liferaft while wearing full wet weather gear.

Turning to face the right direction is difficult
Swimming a short distance takes enormous effort
Holding on to a line while being dragged through the water is next to impossible
Even climbing up the liferaft steps takes extraordinary effort

And this is in a warm swimming pool, with no waves and in broad daylight.

Good course - makes you clip on!!!
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Old 26-04-2010, 19:43   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
Another point worth bringing up is how little the MoB will be able to do for themselves.

Because I do a bit of offshore racing, I have to do certain training courses every now and then. One involves messing about in a swimming pool and trying to get into a liferaft while wearing full wet weather gear.

Turning to face the right direction is difficult
Swimming a short distance takes enormous effort
Holding on to a line while being dragged through the water is next to impossible
Even climbing up the liferaft steps takes extraordinary effort

And this is in a warm swimming pool, with no waves and in broad daylight.

Good course - makes you clip on!!!
Good course's.. done 3 for commercial reasons but they didn't make me clip on... just a refresher on realities... but.. they give hope to the hopefull... and re-assure the faint hearted.
Maybe.. one day when I'm older n slower I will clip on.. perspectives change.. but at this stage in life I still prefer the freedom to move fast with one less thing to trip over or waste time with.
Like everything... in the end its personal choices
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Old 26-04-2010, 21:11   #52
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My reasons considering this a good maneuver are as follows...
1/ it takes you back around to a position where you can look along the troughs to try and spot your MOB.. or his light... as you circle...
a controlled gybe is no big deal
2/ a measured and maintained 360 turn brings you back to the zone of initial MOB and trails the recovery gear across his body so he can grab on.
3/ the second 360.. much tighter gives him a second chance if the first failed, and hopefully gets you close enough to see why... unconscious..??
4/ when recovering the MOB make sure he's on the windward side else the wind and waves will ride you right over him

I should further point out that this maneuver is only doable up to a certain wind force/sea state.. once that sea state is passed its just down to luck.
You'll be trying to spot a small object in a mess of breaking waves and turning the boat round could result in a broach, possibly another MOB and more problems.. then its the hard choice.. wait out the blow.. or...
and some body's probably said all this before....lol
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Old 27-04-2010, 07:18   #53
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The MOB is most likely helpless, even if they are conscious. A short-handed way to get the person back aboard is also importandt, as is having the second person not go overboard hooking up a lifting line to the MOB.
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Old 27-04-2010, 07:59   #54
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If a person can help themself or not has a lot to do with training and equiptment. Yeasterday on the N. Chick outside Chattanooga my friend was able to gather his boat with it full of water 500lbs+ and paddle after smacking his face on a rock in class IV cold white water with no help. We traveled 10 miles through soild class IV white water to end the day passing a body recovery at the take out. A 29yr on male went tubing with out PFDs or helmet and is no longer here. Body of Rafter Found in Pocket Wilderness After 24 Hour Search | WDEF News 12 | News, Weather and Sports for Chattanooga and the Tennessee Valley
I teach my students to self rescue themself and we paddle year around with water and air near freezing. All kind of people go rafting and 50% can help them self (this means grabing and holding a rope in fast moving water!). If you own a boat learn to swim. If it's cold day where you may hit the water wear a dry suit! How long can you spend in the water if near freezing with your gear? In my enviroment things happen fast people do die. I don't know sailing but I know what people can do in cold fast water!
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Old 27-04-2010, 19:23   #55
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I teach my students to self rescue themself and we paddle year around with water and air near freezing. All kind of people go rafting and 50% can help them self (this means grabing and holding a rope in fast moving water!). If you own a boat learn to swim.
I'm with you all the way with training and the right equipment for the situation is also important. But I think there is a difference between a kayaker in the water and a sailor.

A kayaker will most likely be wearing a wetsuit? close fitting PFD? He is therefore bouyant and manoverable.

A sailor going over the side in bad weather will most likely have full wet weather gear and an inflatable lifejacket. He will be carrying at least half a tonne of water inside his clothing and his life jacket pretty much percludes any swimming. I wouldn't expect him to do more than catch a rope. His ability even to get himself into a lifesling in this scenario and without prior practice is debatable.

If the MoB goes over in tee shirt & shorts, he can do more to get him self back on board - get a line to him or some other MoB device that is attached to the boat and pull him back in.

Different approaches for different scenarios - the more options for recovery you have, the more likely you are to get the man back
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Old 28-04-2010, 13:27   #56
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Clip on

I remember Eric Tabarly, a famous French ocean racer, who fell overboard in a gale while rigging the storm trysail on his yacht. He always refused to wear a harness for maneuvering (said that the one who falls overboard has no place aboard).

He was hit by the boom and thrown overboard. Without sails, the crew couldn't maneuver the yacht in time to find him.

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Old 28-04-2010, 18:57   #57
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Having followed this thread for a while, being a MOB is right close to being dead.

I think my wife and I are going to break out the harnesses when we reef, from here on out.
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Old 29-04-2010, 00:00   #58
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being a MOB is right close to being dead.

I think my wife and I are going to break out the harnesses when we reef, from here on out.
We have harnesses on all the time unless very calm, (and life jacket (inflatable) on with strobe in pocket ) going overboard isn't going to happen to us.
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Old 29-04-2010, 05:59   #59
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Another thing to remember is that if the MOB is suffering hypothermia, bringing them back aboard horizontal is preferred. Bringing them vertical drains blood from the core, lowering the core temperature, and may lead to cardiac arrest.
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Old 29-04-2010, 06:19   #60
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What is "full wet weather gear" for sailing? If in the water does it keep you dry/warm? Can you swim fast in it? Here is what I use and if you spend time in the water you will come out dry. Gore tex is breathable and the way to go! http://www.kokatat.com/product_drysuits.asp

I am not sure how practical this product is for sailing, I just know how warm and dry you can be in water near freezing!
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