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Old 23-04-2010, 00:50   #31
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I am not sure there's any control of the boat when hove to. I want absloute control so I can get to the MOB and pick them up.
I agree about the control - but I don't think they actually mean a proper hove to. I think it's just a reference to stuffing the boat past head to wind to backwind the jib and stop the boat - As soon as the boat is stopped, you have opportunity to get rid of at least the jib and setup for the recovery


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How many people can reach the water from the amidships deck, or from the quarter from the cockpit?
Not many - so you probably need to be able to rig something easily so that you can get someone on board from the side.

A strong horseshoe or lifesling attached to a halyard perhaps.

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But I can from the swim platform (its not a diving board!). I can get down and touch the water while kneeling. perfect for hitching a line to a MOB.
If the seas allow you to. In heavy conditions, there is probably as much chance of landing the transom on the MOB as there is of getting them back on board.

Something to grab at the aft quarter would allow the MoB to hang safely until you are able to leave the helm and pull them back on board over the side of the transom.

I think it's important to have a number of options - if one fails, try another.
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Old 23-04-2010, 01:57   #32
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I do suppose it makes a big difference in what type of boat and how many crew are able to help out, but assuming only one on board after the man over board, then I would suggest, again assuming that the waves are such that a boarding ladder on the larger boat is too risky due crashing up and down in the waves and a side ladder is hard to climb up for the same reason, that a long rope and float be deployed astern and the boat brought around so that the boat passes alongside the person in the water. Then once the person is able to hold onto the rope safely, the boat is kept under control but in drift speed mode so that the speed matches the person in the water, then wrapping the rope around a winch the person can be brought close enough to the boat so that the dingy can be lowered and they can use a looped rope on the dingy transom to step up. For unconscious but floating man over board situations, and you have the person in sight, stop the boat, steady it with a drogue and launch the dingy to pick them up. Easy said in easy conditions, in rough water it is going to be hard and a net may be the best bet. The other thing is, it would be great if off watch crew could know when someone has fallen off, and the various alerters like the Raymarine life tag and others are good, but they don't update the position as the person drifts or swims the wrong way. We brought in a beacon for our Dog for use on our Ketch, it is called a Sea Safe, and for the dog it goes on his dog life jacket and for us on deck, it goes on our rain / life jacket pocket. If it gets really wet, not just splashed, it sets off the alarm by the wheel and then we can track the location until we can get them back on board, it lasts for 7 days transmit times and has a relatively cheap $ 10 battery we can replace at sea so if the Mum in law falls over, we could just let the tender drift over to her and come back to pick her up after a few days, grin. Receiving Range for dog in water to boat is about 30 kms. If things get still lost and outside help is needed, a plane at 1,500 ft high can track the beacon up to 100 kms away. Note it is not normally monitored by aircraft as it uses a off emergency frequency channels signal. Still knowing where they are is only half of the problem, getting them back on deck is the hard part especially if there is only one crew member still on board. I often motorsail alone, so I usually tow the dingy behind on a very long rope so I hopefully have time to grab it as it comes past. At 7 knots the dingy is only 10 seconds behind though with a 70 ft rope. Maybe I best make it a longer rope, say 578 ft, that would give me a whole minute to reach it ! Failing that, a waterproof remote for the autopilot might be handy. Or perhaps find some way to have the boat autopilot home in on the Sea Safe signal .?. I know I can hook up the life raft release to the Sea Safe beacon alarm so it releases the liferaft and turns off the engine, and if the raft could be fitted with a really long line on a reel, I could swim to the liferaft, and remote control the reel to wind in and bring me back to the boat. --
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Old 23-04-2010, 02:01   #33
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Gosh where did the tidy formating go...
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Old 23-04-2010, 07:23   #34
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Yeah the formatics are a pain!
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Old 23-04-2010, 08:03   #35
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My solution to MOB is to rig the jacklines down the centre of the boat so that at no time is there enough length in the tether to throw me over the lifelines. In fact I usually have to bend towards the centre of the yacht as I shuffle to the bow. The padeye at the bow stops well short of it so that I could only reach the furler on my knees. It means I have to unclip to get past the mast but I have 2 clips on my tether so I can always have 1 attatched. Yes it's a PIA but easier than trying to drag myself back on from the water.

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Old 23-04-2010, 08:46   #36
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My solution to MOB when single handed (Which is a lot of the time) is a pause for reflection... then see how deep I can go before running outa air...
don't use lifelines.. life jackets a waste of time... or is it dragging out time...??
But then.. I always have been a Cocky Bast#*d...
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Old 23-04-2010, 09:56   #37
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I can't seem to find the article, and I'm not advocating to not use the engine, but to think carefully about it. The article by Rousmaniere IIRC states that from USCG accident stats from one year shows that there were no successful recoveries under power due to fouling the prop.


COB cases, successful, unsuccessful, with and without lifeslings:
Lifesling Case History

2005 crew overboard rescue symposium:
http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...nal+Report.pdf
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Old 23-04-2010, 11:01   #38
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I'm not advocating to not use the engine,

really?

Not to use the engine? why? To save fuel?



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Old 23-04-2010, 11:50   #39
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really?

Not to use the engine? why? To save fuel?



Mark
Maybe I wrote it poorly, the next sentence says that everyone that attempted a rescue using the engine failed because they wrapped lines in the prop. Failed in this case means the person in the water died. So my point was that if you have determined that the way you are going to do COBs is with the engine, that you make sure all lines are on deck, and can't be washed off. That if the engine fails, don't get stuck of the mindset of clearing the prop, or repairing the engine, sail back to the COB.

Thank you for the evaluation of my intelligence.

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Old 23-04-2010, 11:52   #40
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I can't seem to find the article, and I'm not advocating to not use the engine, but to think carefully about it. The article by Rousmaniere IIRC states that from USCG accident stats from one year shows that there were no successful recoveries under power due to fouling the prop.


COB cases, successful, unsuccessful, with and without lifeslings:
Lifesling Case History

It's an interesting read. It's too bad they don't include the sea state or wind in most of their reports. Context means everything.
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Old 23-04-2010, 12:28   #41
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Thank you for the evaluation of my intelligence.

John
I was not evaluating

Just asking re question, not IQ. Sorry if you thought I was out to offend

We have strong rules on lines overboard and I agree they can foul a prop. I still believe its better to get rid of all sails when the boat is stopped (NOT hove to) and the engine started and engaged.
In the old days when a yacht engine was an auxiliary engine I can agree., But these days with a modern boat and the times I have been in rough seas on this boat and others I think the engine copes very well.

In my own boat I am thinking that as soon as its a life and death situation I will turn the boat into a motor boat and just use the sails in case of engine failure.

That holds true with any dangerous situation. I have more than 1 weeks supply of fuel so it maintains my thoughts in storms as well. thats not to say I wouldnt use sails as well.


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Old 23-04-2010, 13:52   #42
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This had nothing to do with how big the engine was. Also I believe that most if not all of these people probably were perfectly aware that lines in the water could stop their engine. It is about making mistakes during an emergency and having tunnel vision. It appears from a one year sample of USCG statistics that this mistake is a common one.

John

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I was not evaluating

Just asking re question, not IQ. Sorry if you thought I was out to offend

We have strong rules on lines overboard and I agree they can foul a prop. I still believe its better to get rid of all sails when the boat is stopped (NOT hove to) and the engine started and engaged.
In the old days when a yacht engine was an auxiliary engine I can agree., But these days with a modern boat and the times I have been in rough seas on this boat and others I think the engine copes very well.

In my own boat I am thinking that as soon as its a life and death situation I will turn the boat into a motor boat and just use the sails in case of engine failure.

That holds true with any dangerous situation. I have more than 1 weeks supply of fuel so it maintains my thoughts in storms as well. thats not to say I wouldnt use sails as well.


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Old 23-04-2010, 16:26   #43
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I agree with Cal40jon. With a MOB, most likely it will not be at anchor, just before cocktail time. It will be in a sea, in a breeze, half the time at night. Getting sails down will almost for sure result in a sheet, or two, overboard. When you put the engine in gear, the odds of wrapping a line in the prop, or chopping up your MOB, are too good for me, hence recovery under sail only.
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Old 23-04-2010, 16:38   #44
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David: On another forum, I suggested use of my inflatable dinghy to recover the MOB, and I was soundly chastened for it by the "main contributors" there.
That's the internet for ya

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The dinghy method is great in theory but think about it a minute... climbing into a dinghy near the beach in your swimwear can be a struggle for many... add wet weather gear/clothes and wind and waves to the equation and its impossible..
That's easily addressed in advance. No fat chicks and a string bikini then becomes MOB safety gear Like all safety gear important to check it fits well Skipper's perks
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Old 23-04-2010, 20:26   #45
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That's the internet for ya



That's easily addressed in advance. No fat chicks and a string bikini then becomes MOB safety gear Like all safety gear important to check it fits well Skipper's perks
I knew there was a reason I prefer it South of 40nth.... and North of 30sth... lol
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