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Old 22-04-2010, 06:16   #16
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As a newcomer, I love watching all the experienced, blue-water folks argue about this. In addition to getting the common recovery methods taught in formal courses, we get to see everyone's improvised methods which may or may not be as effective.

David: On another forum, I suggested use of my inflatable dinghy to recover the MOB, and I was soundly chastened for it by the "main contributors" there. When a MOB occurs, one of the first things you do is toss a throwable PFD to them. I don't see how cutting an inflatable dinghy loose for them can be harmful. They may make it to the dinghy, but then again, they might. As the MOB, flopping into a dinghy is do-able, and buys you time if you can get out of the water, and as you said, getting aboard from a dinghy is easier.

Backing down to the MOB:
Why are some people so vehemently against this? Is your helm control or depth perception so poor that you would actually back down over the MOB? Still, it seems that this method has limited application. You wouldn't back into 4-6' seas with a sugar scoop stern would you?

The whole boat manuvering issue is important, but from all the links people have posted and CG studies I've read, actually getting people out of the water seems to be the worst part. If I ever have a MOB, I'm going to automatically assume that they injured themselves when they fell over and will be of little use in their own recovery. (If they ARE ambulatory, then that's extra gravy.)

That means ugly things like using a boat hook to flip them over or drag them to the boat if necessary, then you have to haul them up somehow. Will a disabled person slip out of a Lifesling? Can you hang over the side to harness them? Should you go into the water to harness them for winching aboard?

I saw a "recovery sail" that you put into the water. You float the disabled MOB into it, and winch it aboard. No chest compression, no assistance from the MOB. It was slick.
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Old 22-04-2010, 06:36   #17
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I've seen those sail rescue things and the way they lift without damaging the casualty is great. How the hell you would get the casualty into the thing in a real MOB situation is totally beyond me.

Any decent PFD will turn them over onto their front so you don't need to use a boathook to flip them. If you need to get hold of them while they're in the water, don't use a boathook, learn how to lasso properly as you run much less risk of damaging them as the boat pitches about.

Spend a morning trying all your suggestions, if possible with live volunteers (not the manoevering bit). Then think about the really nasty seas/weather you've been in, then re-evaluate your solutions as to how you would do this in those conditions, in the dark, 1500 miles from help without an engine. Once you've got an answer to that question that works for you, then don't worry about what everyone else says, just go with your solution.

Just for reference, I'd class 4'-6' seas as calm. Any proper ocean swell is easily this high, which is why I don't think backing up is a sensible thing to rely on.
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Old 22-04-2010, 06:54   #18
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Having been involved in a few MOB rescues in varying conditions they only thing for sure is that there is no “ONE SOLUTION”

The most important thing to do is to find and secure them to the boat first then decide how to recover.

I think if you are short handed, using the tender to create a low freeboard platform to recover a person in shock or hypothermia may be the best solution to get them out of the water or at least secured to a soft platform that will not beat them to death in a seaway.

You can learn a lesson from commercial fishermen who have actually used their nets to winch MOBs out of the water and boom them onto the deck.

On a yacht, modifying a bit of net into a purse seine with a ready made harness to use on the boom with topping lift could lift an unconscious person or body onto the deck singlehandedly.

Would be a fun thing to practice..
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Old 22-04-2010, 07:06   #19
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The jib method is one I'm familiar with... basically one has an old no3 jib or some thing similar(Sized according to freeboard) with snap hooks fitted at the foot and clew which can be rapidly attached to appropriate points on the toerail or round stanchions. The spinnaker sheet or whatever else you have free is clipped to the head and dropped over the side... maneuver MOB into the 'sling' then winch up resulting in the MOB either being rolled onto the side deck or at deck level where he can then be moved to a position of safety...
It does work well but is tricky in heavy seas and would be easier with more than 1 person left on board, as in the time it takes one leaves the wheel and gets midships with the boathook/line your vessels likely to have been blown out of reach of the MOB.... if they're unconscious its even harder.
The dinghy method is great in theory but think about it a minute... climbing into a dinghy near the beach in your swimwear can be a struggle for many... add wet weather gear/clothes and wind and waves to the equation and its impossible.. in reality all a MOB can do till help gets there is float and wait... swimming is max effort for minimal/zero progress and reduces reserves needed to combat hypothermia..
One does the best one can in the circumstances.. just be prepared to adapt and do not be tied to a single rigid routine...
Lasso... dont be silly.. this isnt a cow galloping over a field its a body in the water and all you can lasso is his head... you'll strangle the poor bugga...
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Old 22-04-2010, 07:29   #20
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Lasso... dont be silly.. this isnt a cow galloping over a field its a body in the water and all you can lasso is his head... you'll strangle the poor bugga...
You clearly don't know how to lasso, which is why I said
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
learn how to lasso properly
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Old 22-04-2010, 07:54   #21
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Very interesting...For about the last ten years, the Storm Trysail Club has taught a junior safety at sea seminar at all of our stations in the US. At the core of the program is how to prevent MOB, and how to get the MOB back aboard as fast as possible.

Quick stop, which is driving the boat into the wind to stop, backwinding the jib, and manuevering back to the MOB, under control and under sail, WITHOUT starting the engine, works well. The last thing you want to do is a lot of frantic sail handling, engine starting, launching the dinghy, and in the process lose sight of the MOB or chop him/her up when you run over them under power.

Trying to bring them back aboard over the stern is impossible, given the pitching of the boat, and trying to manuever in reverse, under power, is crazy, no offense intended. With a full crew, the MOB is best hauled back aboard in the vicinity of the cockpit, since the freeboard is generally lower there, and the boat driver can see. Shorthanded, again the cockpit retreival makes sense, since that is where the driver is, as well as winches, etc, to hoist the MOB aboard.

We have trained about 3,000 kids in this method over the years. This is an all-day program, and the kids divide up by yacht club. In the afternoon, we take all the kids out in real boats and practice quick stop, with all the kids rotating through all the stations, one coach per boat, the kids doing everything. A few years ago, on an overnight race on Long Island Sound, at night in a squall, one of the race boats, on which the crew had been through this program, had a MOB, and the person was back aboard in about 90 seconds.

I'm not saying this is the only way, but it does work.
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Old 22-04-2010, 07:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis View Post
You clearly don't know how to lasso, which is why I said
Lassoing involves casting a loop over/under an object and creating a force that closes the loop securing the object of choice to your will... for this the loop needs to be "free running".... wave movement, boat movement once it hits the water will affect the adjustment before you even start to exert your will on the line... rope floats... even sinking rope floats for a while... please explain how you get the rope down to a safe level.. I'd love to know... or does it depend on the MOB being able to raise his arms over his head.
I'm not being sarcastic... honestly.. but I have lassoed in the past as a kid and also as an adult coming alongside in strong winds alone... I'm eager to learn more
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Old 22-04-2010, 08:07   #23
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  1. Coil a line
  2. Take the coil in 2 hands and divide into 2 equal coils with a loop in between. Hold the ends of the line between the thumb and forefinger of each hand
  3. Let a couple more rings of the coil drop in the middle, so that the loop hanging in between your two hands is longer.
  4. Swing the whole lot between your legs a couple of times and then release all of it forwards and slightly outwards to the sides (keep hold with both thumb and forefingers).
  5. If you've done it right you end up with the line in a wide loop beyond your target with you holding on to both ends. As it's wide you can pause for a second to let it sink, then pull it towards you.
I normally do it with one end tied to the boat, so that whatever happens I won't lose the line.

With practice you can get something a lot further away than when using a boathook, and with far less risk of damaging the casualty, if it all goes wrong, just release one end and pull the other.
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Old 22-04-2010, 08:16   #24
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Ahhhh... therein lies the confusion... being a 'Brit' I misunderstood and assumed you meant LASSO as in YEEHAA... mad charge outa the gate after a steer and lasso them to catch or drop them to the ground...
What you were actually saying was use a bight of line to draw them to the boat...
Gotcha
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Old 22-04-2010, 08:36   #25
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I was taught how to 'lasso' like this in the solent about 10 years ago on a very cold and rough competent-crew course in November.
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Old 22-04-2010, 19:54   #26
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Wow, you're relying a lot .............

And

Not de-power, HEAVE-TO!! .................. stop the boat.
YourOldNemesis-

You've got some great post here.

Pleae don't assume I that I would plan/hope to rely on anyone else being able to hear me. I believe I made that pretty clear.

"stop the boat"
Yeah. That's what I said. But HEAVE-TO does say it better.
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Old 22-04-2010, 20:17   #27
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Old 22-04-2010, 23:03   #28
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Having been involved in a few MOB rescues in varying conditions they only thing for sure is that there is no “ONE SOLUTION”
I agree with this 100%.

I've only had one MOB for real - unconcious and with no life jacket.

We got him back within a couple of minutes by crash tacking, blowing halyards and backing the boat down hard.

It wouldn't be my first choice of MOB technique - especially in a sea - but it was the right choice for the conditions - because it was the quickest way back to the guy.
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Old 22-04-2010, 23:12   #29
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Quick stop, which is driving the boat into the wind to stop, backwinding the jib, and manuevering back to the MOB, under control and under sail, WITHOUT starting the engine, works well.
Good system for getting the boat back to the MOB under sail - if for some reason you can't start the engine or it is imprudent to do so.

Can't agree with the not starting the engine though
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Old 22-04-2010, 23:22   #30
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"stop the boat"
Yeah. That's what I said. But HEAVE-TO does say it better.
I am not sure there's any control of the boat when hove to. I want absloute control so I can get to the MOB and pick them up.


How many people can reach the water from the amidships deck, or from the quarter from the cockpit?

I sure can't. But I can from the swim platform (its not a diving board!). I can get down and touch the water while kneeling. perfect for hitching a line to a MOB.

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