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Old 23-02-2010, 14:42   #16
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Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
... particularly if the water is cool, you will die. The life jacket won't help much....
The life jacket will help a great deal. It has been rather conclusively demonstrated that in cold water, most people without a life jacket drown. They don't die from hypothermia. In cold water, swim failure occurs in 5-15 minutes. If you have floatation, it will take at least a half hour (usually an hour or more) before you become unconcious from hypthermia.

For some graphic demostrations, see the links:
Cold Water Boot Camp

Cold Water Boot Camp, 10 Minute Feature on Vimeo

University of Manitoba: U of M - Kinesiology and Recreation Management - Health, Leisure, And Human Performance Research Institute - Dr. Gordon Giesbrecht

DVD's of "Cold Water Bootcamp USA" are supposed to be available in March: Cold Water Boot Camp DVD<br>AVAILABLE IN MARCH 2010

Life jackets don't guarantee survival in cold water, but they do buy you lot more time than most people realize. Time for your crew to get the boat turned around and attempt to rescue you. To wear a PFD or not is a personal choice, but we need to keep our facts straight.
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Old 23-02-2010, 15:33   #17
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My MOB procedure is single step:

- don't have a MOB.

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Old 23-02-2010, 15:40   #18
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For all those who do not follow my SSMOB (single step man over board procedure) you might be interested in:

!!! AIS SARTs !!!

Jotron makes them and now also McMurdo.

One thing is to lose a MOB, another to find one, esp. in heavy going or at night.

I think the AIS SART is great as a MOB location system.

b.
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Old 23-02-2010, 15:56   #19
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The only MOB I have encountered was myself while single-handing. Fortunately the boat yanked me back aboard before I hit the water. There have been some people on charters that I did not know. That I would've loved to push over, and never call out MOB!.......i2f
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Old 23-02-2010, 19:16   #20
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On a blue water sailing school exercise we had a night MOB drill. Wow, what an eye opener. Even with a strobe on, the life preserver was almost impossible to see. Always get paranoid passage making at night after that.
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Old 23-02-2010, 20:20   #21
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I have never experienced a MOB event and admit that I really should practice drills more frequently. However, we have a VERY strict rule that harnessess are worn at night-EVERY night-- flat calm or otherwise. We clip our harnesses before we exit the companionway and have jack lines that allow us access to the entire deck. We also wear them during the day if one is down below sleeping. We harness the dog in too. This is a non-negoatiable rule for the two of us. The thought of not being able to retrive my husband if he fell overboard is probably my biggest fear while sailing.

Of course at the moment our boat is sitting in our backyard on a custom semi trailer and a falling overboard would probably result in broken bones and bruises now. OUCH. (maybe we should pull out the harnesses!)
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Old 23-02-2010, 20:36   #22
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most only go over once
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Old 23-02-2010, 20:59   #23
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The Day I did something really REALLY STUPID (2000)

Lucky to be Alive
Last summer I hauled my Santana 28 up to Olympia to start a summer of cruising. I am a High School teacher and was looking forward to seven or eight weeks of cruising. I was starting out with my two kids, Gwen 8 and Aaron 11, and Piggy the guinea pig. We were buddy boating with Phil and Penny aboard Gallifrey, a Vancouver 25.
We left Olympia on the 1st of July and cruised up the sound, stopping along the way to spend time at Point Deception Zoo, Hartstein Isand, Seattle, Blake Island (who ever stole the fishing pole and tackle box you partly ruined a boy’s summer), Whidbey Island, and into the San Juans. While in the San Juans the auto pilot gave out so it was a lot of hand steering . After a few day’s we headed into Anacortes to meet my wife (Cheryl) and dog (Neptune) on July 20th. When we arrived in Anacortes, I went to the local marine electronic repair shop to see about auto. But they were too busy to get right to it. So, I got some advice and went back to the boat and with the help of my crew I performed surgery on auto. We found the trouble, a broken drive gear. So back to the shop we went but they were closed. We went for ice cream to plan our next move. We decided to return to the boat and await Mom.
After a night of pizza and root beer and telling Mom of the great adventures and wonderful sites, we prepared to get underway. I went back two times that morning to get the parts but the shop was not open. So, we cast off lines right after Phil and Penny, who always seemed to get out before us. It was a wonderful sunny day but no wind, so we headed up Bellingham channel. The plan was to go to Sucia then into Canada to cruise the Gulf Islands and see the Buchart Gardens and Victoria. Cheryl and the kids were down below playing a game.
I was in the cockpit sitting on the coaming with my feet on the cabin top, steering with a hiking stick, leaning on the lifelines, enjoying the sun. What a wonderful trip this had been and now Cheryl was onboard and things were as they should be. We were motoring along (noisy) at about five knots. I had been relaxing for about an hour when all of a sudden I heard a popping sound and the pelican hook on the gate POPPED OPEN!
Needless to say I fell over backwards into the water with a death grip on the hiking stick. I could not hold on. As I hit the water the force of the boat tore it out of my hand. I went under and when I came up the boat was leaving me. I tried to grab the inflatable dingy we were towing but I missed the painter on the side as my fingers could not grasp it. The whole time I was screaming for help.
Cheryl and the kids down below suddenly felt the boat make a sharp turn to port. Cheryl yelled up to ask me what was going on. When I did not reply she stuck her head up through the companionway to see what was going on. But where had Dad gone? She slowed the boat and scanned the water. She saw the open gate and panicked. Scanning the water again she spotted my red hat but did not see me and, knowing I am not a very good swimmer and was fully clothed, thought I had drowned. Then she spotted me waving and screaming. She headed for me at full throttle with both kids on deck keeping a eye on dad.
From the water the sight of your boat going away from you is one I cannot describe. It seemed like forever before anyone was on deck looking for me. When Cheryl appeared on deck I knew I had a slim chance of making it as I was swallowing water and having a hard time staying up. At one point I tried to take off my pile pullover but went down and was afraid, so I swam towards the boat.
Now my boat is coming at me at what seems like warp speed. “Oh my God she’s going to run me down.”
Cheryl and the kids lost me as the boat got close. Now I was doing all I could to get away from the boat but not too far. On the first pass they missed me . Great, now instead of getting run over by my boat I was just back to drowning. On the second pass Cheryl parked the boat about three yards from me. I was struggling to stay up and begging them to throw me something. Aaron was holding one of the two throw cushions that were in the cockpit and Cheryl was telling him over and over to throw it, but could not take it from him, throw the other cushion or the lifesling, nor our man overboard pole. Gwen was just wide eyed in disbelief.
As I was along side the boat, one of the main traveler lines was hanging over the side. I reached up and grabbed it. Tired and very cold, I asked for the lifesling which they dropped to me. Now I could go around to the stern and get back onboard.
Phil and Penny, seeing our boat turn around, headed back to us. When they spotted a black object in the water they thought it was Neptune the dog. Laughing, they came back to watch us get a 90-pound lab back on board. As they got closer they saw me in the water and were laughing about me in the water to rescue the dog. When they got close they realized Neptune was onboard.
When I sail the boat on the Columbia after work, I wear my life jacket. The kids do not come up on deck without a life jacket and are good about reminding each other. Phil and Penny both commented on how impressed they had been with me wearing a life jacket every day. This was the only day I did not put on a life jacket. Most times I wear a manual/automatic West Marine vest.
I know how lucky I am to be alive. The one thing I kept telling myself was I could not drown in front of my kids and ruin something they both love.
Tim

This happened in 2000. I am not a swimmer. I can barley tread water. We had practiced MOB many times, On the Columbia river,Puget sound and lakes when we had an Aquarius 23.
Tim
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Old 23-02-2010, 21:14   #24
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Tim-good to hear all ended well for you! Stories like yours should help us make drills, lifejackets, and harnesses a priority. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 23-02-2010, 21:24   #25
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I've been sailing 45 years and never had someone go overboard from my boat offshore.

BUT in those years, I have only known two people who died while sailing. Both died when they fell overboard. Both were fit and experienced. Both fell off well crewed boats that knew what to do. Neither body was ever found.

Other recent cases. In 2006, the Volvo Ocean Race had it's first fatality when a crew member fell over in mid Atlantic under spinnaker at night. They saw him go. Got the sails down and went back through the dark to find him. Unbelievably, they found him - but he was dead.

Three years ago the ARC had it's first fatality (I believe) on a boat sailed by two brothers. One brother fell over and was pinned by his safety harness against the leaward hull side by the force of the rushing water. He was able to talk to his brother who was unable to get him back over the life lines. He eventually drowned pinned to the boat.

"Man Overboard" is the only sailing emergency that scares the s*** out of me.

Carl
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Old 23-02-2010, 21:25   #26
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Unfortunately most people who drown from MOB do so with their fly open !
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Old 23-02-2010, 21:43   #27
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Unfortunately most people who drown from MOB do so with their fly open !
That's males, right?
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Old 23-02-2010, 23:44   #28
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Quote:
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Wow after all the views only 2 underway overboards. Not to say we still don't need to practrice for this, but it is sounding like another of those GREAT dangers we worry about etc. that we shouldn't. Right up there maybe with the perfect strom that comes up during boat discussions.
It's not as rare as a perfect storm, and it IS something you should worry about and think about, probably more than any other safety issue. It's the number 1 way to die on a sailboat by far. In warm weather, calm seas, and broad daylight it's not as scary -- assuming someone sees you go over and you have some clue as to whatto do. In cold water, rough seas, and or night time -- it's a nightmare scenario, and only excellent skills, proper equipment, and decisive action can give the MOB even a CHANCE of survival.
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Old 24-02-2010, 02:35   #29
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The biggest concern people should have about a manoverboard situation, is how to get the heaviest person back onboard, especially if they have been in the water a while and dont really have much left to be able to assist.

This is an area that is ignored in 99.9999999% of practices. Furthermore, the schools teach a manoeuvre that gets the boat back within boat hook range of the person in the water. Trust me, if you are in the water and see the boat coming straight at you, relief at the probability of rescue is not the first thing you think off.

You need to have a system developed that includes getting the person out of the water.

You need to stop the boat in a position where you can get a line to the MOB without giving them a heart attack. On a mono, that means in a position where you will naturally drift down towards the MOB. On a cat, this is not necessarily the best idea, especially in a strong wind, where the sideways movement can be fast enough to drift right over the top of a MOB.
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Old 24-02-2010, 09:26   #30
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Wow great post Tim. This discussion will make me change my ways. I am thinking that I would use the boom to raise and lower the person off the boat. My mainsheet is attached to the very end, and if I could place a quick release....Has anyone tried this. Another option would be the spinnaker halyard. Perhaps we should try both. And does anyone use a real person in ideal conditions to haul and get an ideal of what real weight would be like?
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