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Old 30-06-2014, 19:35   #16
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pirate Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Thats a long way from anywhere...
In such a lonely sea I would have grabbed that oportunity too.

I think they did very well. Hope their insurance pays out and they can either go cruising again or find a nice holiday house a loooooong way from the sea


Mark
+A1,, Good news that all are safe and live to sail another day..
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Old 30-06-2014, 19:43   #17
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Partial Skeg
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Old 30-06-2014, 19:49   #18
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

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I would call that a mini skeg:
So would I, and the trouble is, we will never know what actually failed because the boat is probably on the bottom by now.
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Old 30-06-2014, 20:13   #19
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Sad story, and few options. As Ann said, I would have been considering dumping the rudder, but being Skeg Hung, probably impossible if the lower mounts had not failed completely. You had no choice really. Happy to hear all are alive and well. There but for the grace of god go I.....
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Old 30-06-2014, 20:18   #20
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

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I would have been considering dumping the rudder
Tell me how you would do that. The rudder shaft was swinging wildly around smashing up the boat structure. How are you going to get the steering quadrant off of a wildly thrashing rudder shaft? How much force would you think would be applied by a rudder with a broken lower support? I believe they were left with one course of action and they took it.
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Old 30-06-2014, 20:27   #21
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Ok, I have an idea.. Rudder cables break?

Use the emergency tiller?
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Old 30-06-2014, 20:32   #22
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Deepfrz, Yep, that's why I said probably impossible. Likely not to work.

However, perhaps heave to, with para anchor or similar if required. Try to minimize the motion of the boat. Next would be dependent on boat layout, but attempt to lash the stock as stationery as possible - if there is anything substantial enough to lash it to... can a sheet winch be rigged to assist.. How it would be detached would depend on how it was fixed - and if the lower mounts were completely gone. Minimize water ingress... whats the forecast, does the rudder float or sink? How is it attached inside the hull etc etc. Way to many variables here - Just thinking aloud, that's all. They did the right thing for them in those circumstances.

I intend no criticism at all. Whenever I come across a problem, I'm always looking for a solution . Sometimes there are none.
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Old 30-06-2014, 20:35   #23
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Boatguy, sorry, no good in this case - rudder stock moving about too much - he says that in his posting....
IMO, there is probably no remedy, but if there is one, you have to stop the stock smashing the boat up more - immediately the problem is located. Heave to, try to prevent more damage, control water ingress, try to nut out a solution...
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Old 30-06-2014, 23:01   #24
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Looking at the design sketch, seems to me that for the rudder stock to be moving that much either the skeg had broken off or the lower gudgeon/pintle attachment had broken.

So, if one could get the quadrant off (big IF) the whole lot might well have fallen away, leaving a hole that MIGHT be pluggable. But sheesh... getting a well used quadrant off when it is still and quiet can be a bitch, and with the stock lashing about, water spraying in and the boat leaping about... not a good look IMO. But if one could lash it in place... just maybe. Still I think the boat was a goner by then, and seeking rescue was the good option... and it worked.

Does leave one wondering what could cause such a failure? The Malo has a good (and possibly deserved) reputation for build quality. If there was no impact with a floating thing, a skeg failure just shouldn't happen... and with a partial skeg like this one, it's more likely to tear off the bottom of the rudder. Some yachts with partial skegs have the bottom of the rudder designed to break away cleanly, leaving some rudder control behind.

A sad story, and one that we'll likely never know enough about.

Jim
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Old 30-06-2014, 23:04   #25
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Totally agree Jim.

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Old 30-06-2014, 23:58   #26
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

A boat that size would have an autopilot mounted below and in that case it should be possible to activate it, stopping it swinging around and steer on a given course.
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Old 01-07-2014, 00:17   #27
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Andreas, I think you misunderstood what was happening - the rudder stock was not rotating on its axis, but the head of the shaft was moving both fore/aft and athwart ship. It was smashing up the shaft tube, and therefore the watertightness of the hull.
An autopilot link on a ram by nature must have a pivot on each end. It would not stop the movement. It might be able to assist in lashing the stock down, but that would be all. The movement broke the steering cables as well... :-(
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Old 01-07-2014, 00:20   #28
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

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Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear View Post
Andreas, I think you misunderstood what was happening - the rudder stock was not rotating on its axis, but the head of the shaft was moving both fore/aft and athwart ship. It was smashing up the shaft tube, and therefore the watertightness of the hull.
An autopilot link on a ram by nature must have a pivot on each end. It would not stop the movement. It might be able to assist in lashing the stock down, but that would be all. The movement broke the steering cables as well... :-(
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Ah, sorry, to fast reading led to missunderstanding
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Old 01-07-2014, 01:06   #29
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

Another win for sat Phones...

A problem with EPIRBs is the country whose responsability the rescue is may not give a stuff. But ringing your own SAR mob they can liase on an international level, kick butt, and as in this case, coordinate the rescue ship themselves.

Then you can sit on the phone and chat to the rescuing ship, aircraft etc when still out of VHF range.

These people were able to make their SAR centre know about the situation far before they would have considered hitting the EPIRB button.

Worth their weight in rocking horse poop.

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Old 03-07-2014, 17:01   #30
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Re: Malo 45, Simanderal, Abandoned 340 Miles from the Seychelles

This is my skeg-hung semi-balanced rudder. Note that the skeg extends nearly to the bottom of the rudder. What you can't see is that this is not a thin structure, but a rather thick solid glass structure. At the pivot point of the rudder/skeg is a substantial bronze fundament. I can't imagine that casting failing, nor a more conservative design approach.

If it should fail, the likelihood of me being able to address the rudder shaft within the aft portion of the boat would be exceedingly problematic. In a substantial seaway, and no longer being a teenager able to squeeze into tight spaces, well... And if I were taking on substantial water at the same time...

I am not surprised that some would question the skipper's response. That is typical of this forum, and forums in general. My opinion - screw the boat! I will save my crew, and will do whatever is necessary to accomplish that. Thankfully, they were able to establish contact via Sat phone ( which finally allows me to make up my mind about SSB vs. Sat phone for distant voyaging).

The Bristol shown below does have a bulkheaded compartment which contains the steering. I had never thought about dewatering that compartment, or ensuring it is relatively watertight. That will be my next boat project.

Currently hunkered down due to Hurricane Arthur outside my door!!!
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