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Old 10-06-2010, 20:52   #31
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So Bill, I guess you mean then that all the people that died in the holocaust got what they deserved? Of course not. I think people who think as you do take to small a view of the world.
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Old 10-06-2010, 21:08   #32
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A little goes a long way

Self reliance and determination are admirable attributes. So is being able to flip a bowline in a single motion. One is skill and one is attitude.

Harm is done when you extrapolate your own circumstance to the rather more complex realities of great wealth. If you own 5 gas stations your are an entrepreneur, if you own 500 gas stations your are in the command economy. Inteligence is required, diligence demanded and if all doors open from the side your on, then luck is the key.

I hope you have the time of your life cruising. It beats the rat race every time.

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Old 10-06-2010, 21:13   #33
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You work hard all your life and are succesfull, now that is due to hard work not luck.
You are driving to the marina one day and a drunken driver runs into you leaving you or your wife paralized that is bad luck in my opinion, and would keep you from being able to cruise.
good luck!
Steve
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Old 10-06-2010, 21:21   #34
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Originally Posted by Bill Lee View Post
Here are the alternatives to the general rule:
We get what we get (we have no control); or
we get what we don't deserve.
I prefer: we get what we deserve. Sometimes we don't - but mostly we do. Seems to be true - but that's my life experience. I hope yours isn't different. As to the OP - he got what he deserves - by his hard work. Cheers,
Bill
There are circumstances under which hard work will provide a good reward most definately. There are circumstances where all your hard work winds up blowing away because of some unforeseen event. Say for instance, you work hard all your life and build an excellent retirement only to discover you have ALS and will be dead in a few years and in those years your body will steadily stop working. Does this person get what they deserve? It is what has come there way and they do get to make of that what they will but I know someone in this situation and I couldn't say they got what they deserved.

As for the OP, I'm glad his plans worked out and while I don't agree it had nothing to do with luck, I do agree it had a lot to do with his hard work. His fortune was to even be in a situation where he had opportunity and health to make something of it. Suggesting that fortune is part of it isn't to belittle his accomplishment.
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Old 10-06-2010, 21:35   #35
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The OP was referring to his hard work resulting in his circumstances. He credited his ability to pursue the cruising lifestyle to his (and his wife's hard work). It was the hard work that resulted in his lifestyle. He exercised his options with an intended result. As a GENERAL rule (hint: general) we do have options (some of us more than others - but at some point you have to be accountable for your success or failure). The attrocities of WWII were not withinn the control or options of the victims. I'm talking apples and Deepfrz is talking oranges. Generally, people do have options - and there successes or failures are a direct byproduct of what options they choose and how they go about exercising their options (hard work vs. not so hard work). Some victims have options - some do not. The expression "you get what you deserve" applies to when y0u DO have choices/optioins. But I guess I'm just narrow minded...
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:11   #36
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Originally Posted by DeepFrz
So Bill, I guess you mean then that all the people that died in the holocaust got what they deserved? Of course not. I think people who think as you do take to small a view of the world.
How silly to even imagine anyone would be suggesting that. The Holocaust hardly fits the "generality" of life, though. It is a fringe event that, thankfully, does not represent what happens in general to people. Perhaps you didn't notice that he said "as a generality."

Most people, living mostly normal lives, do get mostly what they deserve.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:20   #37
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Say for instance, you work hard all your life and build an excellent retirement only to discover you have ALS and will be dead in a few years and in those years your body will steadily stop working. Does this person get what they deserve?
Obviously not, but once again, this situation does not fit with the qualification of "as a generality." ALS affects a bit less than 2 out of every 100,000 people worldwide. One could hardly describe that as something that happens as a generality to people.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:31   #38
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You are right that the example I used was off topic. However, I was trying to make the point that most peoples lives are governed (to greater or lesser degree) by circumstances beyond their control; ie: luck.

"As I've often said... this [increasing income inequality] is not the type of thing which a democratic society—a capitalist democratic society—can really accept without addressing." - Alan Greenspan, June 2005

Alan Greenspan was talking about the income inequality within the U.S.A. and is just one example of inequality in our lives.

Oh, and the title of this thread is "Luck has nothing to do with it". I'm just arguing that luck (circumstance, lot in life, events beyond our control, whatever your definition of luck) has a great deal to do with it.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:54   #39
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Obviously not, but once again, this situation does not fit with the qualification of "as a generality." ALS affects a bit less than 2 out of every 100,000 people worldwide. One could hardly describe that as something that happens as a generality to people.
Generality for when and where? What is generally true in the first world isn't in the lion's share of the world. Yes, we all have a shot at "making our own luck". If you are fortunate enough to be born to a place and time of abundance you have a good shot at recieving a very good reward.
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Old 11-06-2010, 13:53   #40
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Let me be clear by what I (me) mean when I say "you get what you deserve". Its really about being accountable and responsible - not blaming others for your own failures. So if we have a group of people (say 30 of them - the minimum numberr for random samping) who all suffer from ALS (pick your issue/illness/disability) and 27 of them suffer from depression (what - have - you) and 3 of them pursue careers and join the mainstream - those 3 got what they deserve. What about the remaining 27? Assuming that they haven't done so - then they got what they deserve - I'm not taling about ALS/illness/diability. We all have options to pursue and we CHOOSE what to do or what not to do. Do I feel bad for anyone with any illness/disability? Absolutely. Am I grteatful that I have fart less disabilities/illnesses (I am not completely out of the woods) - yes. Another exampke: 2 investors invest. One gsd with T-Bills another with a pyramid scheme. The first makes a bit of money - the 2nd loses it all. Do I feel bad for the 2nd - yes. Did they both get what they deserve - yes. All investments have risk - its all a matter of degree. You go with the higher risk then you take on the risk of loss. AND fraud. That doesn't mean the fraudster shouldn't get punished and dsnrt mean I don't feel for who ever got taken. But for Pete's sake - each investor had options and chose. You can choose wisely or poorly - that's up to you. If urte born poor and in a poor neighbourhood - that has nothing to do with what you deserve. But if you ARE able to 'escape' that (if the option exists) and you do - you get what you deserve. If you have the option to escape it and you don't - you get what you deserve. My family was ALWAYS poor. We emmingrated from a 3rd wolrd country. I am so grateful for the opportunities I've been given. For me to make something of myself is far easier than my former countrymen sill in that 3rdf world country - that's not a fair application of the GENERAL principle. If you take people in similar circumstances who obtain different outcomes - its never a matter of magic that the outcomes are different. You might as well sibstitute the word magic for luck. Its what WE do - choices WE make that determine our future. Some people start of way ahead: loving families, affluence, and so forth. If you compare those is the same random sampling (rich to rich, impovrished to impovrished, abused to abused) you'll see some who "make" it and some who don't. THAT has NOTHING to do with luck - its our choices, - work ethic. Of course I feel badly for anyone in lworse circumstances than my own - but when we say they don't deserve it - who orr what is to blame? Inevitably, in analyzing the situations it will show that individual choices determine outcome. I know of people who were raped by their parents. Of course no one deserves that. These individuals are scarred for life. One's on welfare, one writes a book and becoomes a succesful author. After the msery they each had choices of what to do with their lives. I never take it for granted that I live in Canada. I never take it for granted that I have achieved financial success. Did I have to wok hard through school and puty in 18 hour days, 7 days a week, for years? That wasn't luck. Having the opportunity to live in Canada and pursue my opportunities had nothing to do with me - that IS luck (circumstances outside of ne's control). Look closely at what YOU can control and what YOU can't. You are allowed to credit yourself for your successes - AND your failures.
Cheers, Bill
Sent from my BlackBerry so may contain errors
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Old 11-06-2010, 14:53   #41
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Being born white, in the industrialized western world might have more influence on a person's ultimate economic status than the agregate of any/all other factors of circumstance/luck.
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Old 11-06-2010, 15:41   #42
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"Wherever you are at any given point in your life is the sum total of every decision you have ever made"

and

"If you want what I have got, do what I did to get it!"
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Old 11-06-2010, 15:49   #43
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"Wherever you are at any given point in your life is the sum total of every decision you have ever made" added to you’re fortuitous (or not) “starting point”, multiplied by your unearned “opportunity factor”.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:31   #44
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Being born white, in the industrialized western world might have more influence on a person's ultimate economic status than the agregate of any/all other factors of circumstance/luck.
Yup

And being a white westerner travels well. I ain't never going to starve (to death) in the 3rd world. nor in the west.

IME viewing that as your starting point then everything else is a degree of up. And the only other consideration is then: will doing "this" get me killed?.

Then again it does help to have had frugal ancestors. and be on track to be the last of the DOJ's
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