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Old 27-06-2011, 18:49   #46
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
But if he's just gone, and there was no tether, the amount of sympathy I can muster is similar to learning that a guy who constantly smoked died in a fire while fuelling a lawn mower. One wonders why it didn't happen sooner.
Seems a bit harsh to me... but each to their own. Whether someone deserved death for their ignorance or foolishness I don't know... but I'd still feel sympathy for them and their family.

I don't know anyone who hasn't done something dumb in their lives - thankfully most of us are able to learn from our mistakes without paying the ultimate price. Of course, as you say, we don't know for sure what happened in this case.

Did you deserve to die with no sympathy the time you fell off - albeit with your PFD but no tether?

I agree with the other poster in that its a bit insensitive to publicly propose possibilities such as murder or suicide attached to this tragedy without good reason.
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Old 27-06-2011, 18:51   #47
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

And another sad story.

Marine police recover body of missing sailor near Elizabeth River - WTKR
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Old 27-06-2011, 19:58   #48
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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Seems a bit harsh to me... but each to their own. Whether someone deserved death for their ignorance or foolishness I don't know... but I'd still feel sympathy for them and their family.

I don't know anyone who hasn't done something dumb in their lives - thankfully most of us are able to learn from our mistakes without paying the ultimate price. Of course, as you say, we don't know for sure what happened in this case.

Did you deserve to die with no sympathy the time you fell off - albeit with your PFD but no tether?

I agree with the other poster in that its a bit insensitive to publicly propose possibilities such as murder or suicide attached to this tragedy without good reason.
Because I had the PFD, I didn't die...besides, I fell off because I was standing outside of the lines, but over a dockline that tensioned and springed me, Cirque de Soleil style, into the drink.

As for the rest, is idle, if plausible, speculation not allowed here? Maybe if I stop a bickering, embittered couple from cruising thereby, I will help to save a life.
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Old 28-06-2011, 00:19   #49
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the hatalie wood tragedy

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Because I had the PFD, I didn't die...besides, I fell off because I was standing outside of the lines, but over a dockline that tensioned and springed me, Cirque de Soleil style, into the drink.

As for the rest, is idle, if plausible, speculation not allowed here? Maybe if I stop a bickering, embittered couple from cruising thereby, I will help to save a life.
-Yea we would want to give any embittered couples the idea that one spouse could wait ten hours before calling authories after pushing spouse overboard{crime of passion} .Later to say must have fallen.shoot.I am typing like Yoda of Star Wars talks with adjectives folowing nouns and adverbs following verbs.Reminds me of a time in high seas i pulled a women out of the path of the swinging mizzen boom only to have her stepchild say i should have let her get knocked overboard.Of course that statement wasnt serious or was it.I dont know and neither do i care same as i really dont shed no tears for strangers who dont respect mother nature as not only care you die fast when you tempt fate but any 2nd chances you best learn from cause odds are you want get another.Russian roulette is for losers are people with a deathwish who inwardly dont care if they die and i personally wouldnt risk my safety for these rockhead rock climbers or airhead skydivers go go bless the coastguard and EMTs that care enough to go out in catagory5 cyclones etc to save sailors etc and other loners who go sailing overboard.shoot.Again i am typing as Yoda does same style talk,another day another disaster.Cheers and may something or someone allways have your back as we are not all weighs looking or another weigh to make it pay.I got my weighs at its the safe way or noway.Learn from the other guys mistakes at it is alot easier.Easy to go overboard sailing or is it go sailing overboard either way it is probably the last soft landing you will make on this earth if sailing solo or you cant contact anyone especially if not wearing a PFD.So bee it and if it was murder/suicide who cares as intent is really hard to prove in a courtroom and mind-reader testimony is considered hear-say so your banter is moot but makes educational reading.Wonde if the NSAis reading my e-mails,clear and out
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Old 28-06-2011, 00:56   #50
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

You guys are about as charitable as a bunch of TV Evangelists.
It must be great to be so perfect...
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Old 28-06-2011, 01:58   #51
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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You guys are about as charitable as a bunch of TV Evangelists.
It must be great to be so perfect...

Now that's funny, and welcome aboard

Truth is, I for one would not have been tethered or had a PFD on in those conditions at that time of day. Very few would have if they're honest. None of us know what happened, but the loss of any life is a tragedy. I also feel there have been a few too many smartarse comments when a bit more sensitivity for the moment would have been in good taste.
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Old 28-06-2011, 02:27   #52
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

I look at the problems of particularly the singlehander and the lfejacket debate. For me, if I go overboard it is already too late, you need to have considered this beforehand. The problem of lifelines not being tall enough is not the answer. The real answer is the asynine positioning of the jackstay, which tends to be right alongside the lifeline. This it will not stop you going overboard, merely suspend you alongside in the hope that the next wave will fling you back aboard.

Much better solution is to move the jackstay into the centreline, and make sure that the length of the rope from your harness to the jackstay is sufficiently short to keep you inboard if you lose your footing.

Do I wear my jacket at night and in bad conditions / of course, but that is mainly so that I have a decent harness for my lifeline.

How many of you advocating wearing of the lifejackets, actually have crotch straps / if you havent, I recommend you try the lifejacket in the water and see what happens / You will then recognise the airline "safety" brief for the farce that it is.
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Old 28-06-2011, 04:02   #53
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

I agree VV. To give people an idea of the local conditions, we were out that day ( the wife and I ), we sailed through the heads looking for whales as there has been a fair few going past recently. There was so little wind we had to motor sail! Needless to say we were not wearing life jackets ( it was so warm I only had a T shirt on ). Lots of boats in the harbour and I don't think I saw anyone wearing a life jacket or harness for that matter.
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Old 28-06-2011, 05:12   #54
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

All very sad, blah blah blah - but in reality the number of folk falling overboard and drowning (with lifejacket or not) is miniscule in relation to the numbers who stay onboard. Probably more chance of getting hit by lightening - and no one (few? ) suggest wearing a hat with a lightening conductor on top

Got to remember that most MOB's are caused by falling overboard - not by failing to wear a lifejacket (or not having a liferaft strapped to your back ).

But at the end of the day each skipper / crew has to decide what level of risk (real or perceived) they are comfortable with.....and in a freemarket one can spend as much money as one wants on stupidity compensators After all, who really wants to waste time on learning what you are doing - it's the 21st century, write a cheque
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Old 28-06-2011, 05:15   #55
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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I'm not sure jacklines do save lives -- you're in the water, the boat's moving at four knots, you're probably drowned. But jacklines do make retrieving the body easier. That said we always wear inflatables on deck when we are underway and we always clip on to jacklines if we leave the cockpit, saves those agonizing days of searching.
Well, I have some personal experience on this subject. I have a good friend who is not a late good friend, thanks to jacklines. He would have gone overboard otherwise, and if he'd gone overboard in the conditions at that particular moment, he would have been impossible to retreive.

This feels like the old seatbelt argument. There will always be a minority of cases in which the seatbelt (or the jackline) was a hinderance rather than a help, but if used properly (or rigged properly in the case of the jackline-tether), they will save lives in a vast majority of the cases.
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Old 28-06-2011, 05:24   #56
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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Got to remember that most MOB's are caused by falling overboard - not by failing to wear a lifejacket (or not having a liferaft strapped to your back ).
Aren't ALL MOB caused by falling overboard?

One of the things I tell every new person on the board during the brief is that the number 1 rule is to stay on the boat! Everything is better on the boat than in the water while underway. If you stay on the board you never need a lifejacket!
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Old 28-06-2011, 05:43   #57
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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Aren't ALL MOB caused by falling overboard?

One of the things I tell every new person on the board during the brief is that the number 1 rule is to stay on the boat! Everything is better on the boat than in the water while underway. If you stay on the board you never need a lifejacket!
Exactly. PFD with integral harness clipped to properly rigged jackline with proper length tether is the most secure arrangement possible.
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Old 28-06-2011, 06:17   #58
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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Aren't ALL MOB caused by falling overboard?
No. some get pushed . (and probably some jump).
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Old 28-06-2011, 06:23   #59
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

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No. some get pushed . (and probably some jump).

A serious insight to the possible crew life aboard your boat!
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Old 28-06-2011, 06:50   #60
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Re: Lost while the wife slept

A VHF radio with DSC capability would be helpful in this situation. You can send a distress message, that includes you exact location. Both Lowrance and Standard Horizon make these, there may be others.

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I often sail single-handed in a 31' sailboat the North East corner of Lake Ontario. It can be very cold in the early and late parts of the summer. Some days I'm out there and there is no boat in sight as far as the eye can see. I try to make it a rule with myself never to move from the cockpit without my self-inflating lifejacket on. It's a hard rule to follow in calm water, always a big temptation to just nip out and fix whatever. And of course, if it's rough, I wear the jacket also in the cockpit. Here in the summer, it can be very hot and humid, and wearing a jacket, or anything around the neck, can be the last thing you want to do. I also carry a "tube" in my pocket which has green fog at one end and flares at the other, but I have doubts as to whether it would do me any good. I've tried trailing a line behind the boat, but there's often some well-meaning person shouting at me that I have a trailing line ! I've also installed accidental gybe preventers on the boom which also get me strange looks and questions when I'm in the marina ! Obviously not single-handers !

I think a very small VHF or cell phone would be better. This story has motivated me to look for something really waterproof along those lines.
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