Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-12-2014, 16:05   #46
Registered User
 
El Pinguino's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Somewhere in Patagonia
Posts: 4,347
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

I've said it before, but I really like Dashew's approach, which was to get all the through-hulls into watertight compartments fore and aft, leaving the main hull volume entirely free of penetrations, making flooding of the main hull volume and thus sinking almost impossible. A brilliant solution; incredible no one has copied it.
Unfortunately your collision bulkhead and/or other w/tight bulkheads are then full of penetrations.
__________________

El Pinguino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 16:10   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Boat: Custom 30
Posts: 156
Images: 9
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
It was May, this year. We took the dink to the beach to clean the bottom. That's when we saw it.

Ralph
Ralph, that boat grounded the same week we returned last year in May.

After a solo crossing, the exhausted skipper tried to negotiate the unfamiliar (to him) pass in the overcast dark, against a running full moon tide. He got hung on the shoal that extends out. Woops.


'
__________________

Custom30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 16:10   #48
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The boat: Cowes (Winter), Above 60N (Summer); me: somewhere in the air!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 21,307
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Unfortunately your collision bulkhead and/or other w/tight bulkheads are then full of penetrations.
Not that many, if like on the Sundeer, all the mechanical plant is in the aft watertight compartment.

Plumbing to toilets would be probably the only seawater plumbing which would need to come through the bulkheads into the main hull volume. Some wiring. Not that hard to seal it up/place it higher. And even if it leaks somewhat -- not the end of the world -- you have bilge pumps. Still much better than to have the water pour directly into your main hull volume.
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 17:10   #49
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Loss of the RedSky

All very well taking about sundeer and other $million boats.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 18:39   #50
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The boat: Cowes (Winter), Above 60N (Summer); me: somewhere in the air!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 21,307
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
All very well taking about sundeer and other $million boats.

Dave
Sundeer were relatively modest boats for their time, cheaper than similar Oysters etc. with practical, modest finishes. Made for real voyaging, not showing off at the yacht club.

But in any case, there's no reason why such measures could not be taken in less expensive boats.

By the way -- Sundeer shared a lot of basic architectural concept with the -- MacGregor 65. Remember those? I wonder if they used the same tricks with the water-tight compartments.
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 18:50   #51
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Adriatic Sea
Boat: Oyster 62 G5 Cutter, Oyster 53 Cutter (for sale?)
Posts: 8,675
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Ah, take it easy on Smack, Robert, give him a break. He was obviously traumatized by someone posting photos of broken Hunters, and nowadays it makes him feel better to post thousands of photos of supposedly better boats which also get broken.

Of course no one ever argued that expensive boats never break or can't be broken. But that's not the point.

As to this case, the title is wrong, since the boat was not lost. But still very chilling case. I think there are three important things to take away:

1. Those of us who are paranoid about running into semi-submerged containers or drifting fishing gear at night (and I am one of those!) are not completely crazy. It's a real problem which can have serious consequences. A good radar and close-in guard zone would prevent many of these incidents in reasonable weather, but when the sea's up, as it was in this case, I guess all bets are off.

2. I wish boat designers would think about protecting the stern of the boat, and not just the bow, from flooding . The Moody 54 has a massive watertight collision bulkhead in the bow. Even the bow thruster is mounted in a caisson, so that a blown seal won't flood the boat. But at the stern? Although there's another very sturdy bulkhead between the lazarette and the main hull volume, it's open through the bilge! . How hard would it have been to extend that bulkhead another 200mm deeper, tab it to the bottom of the boat, and put in a sump with another bilge pump there? . This -- I can't call it anything other than a design flaw -- is common to virtually all cruising boats, except only Dashew's magnificent Sundeers and some Amels, as far as I know. This situation would not have caused a crisis in a Sundeer or an Amel, at least, not a flooding crisis.

3. The saddest fact of all, is that Red Sky was abandoned but didn't sink. Well, it's not sad at all, because she will be repaired and put back into commission -- no Moody 54 has ever been lost. But sad because something as simple as adequate bilge pumps could have saved this situation. 99.9% of cruising boats do not have bilge pumps capable of keeping up with even minor flooding. Cruising boats, especially those which don't have extensive watertight compartments, should have serious crash pumps fitted as standard equipment.

I have a pair of Rule 4000's pumping out through 2" hoses, which I added (I am paranoid about flooding, as well as floating containers), for a total of four electric and one manual pump.

But normal bilge pumps are nearly useless in a flooding situation -- because the high water stirs up debris and clogs the strainers.

What you really need to control flooding is a high volume trash pump which will not get clogged -- something like this: HondaWSP100 Model Info | Submersible Water Pump | Honda Pumps

You can store it in the bilge with a folding firehose-type discharge hose.

Some people like the Jabsco engine-driven pumps for this -- I don't like them as much, because (a) they are subject to clogging; (b) the engine must be working for them to work (note that in the Red Sky case the water had disabled the main engine); (c) they are not such big capacity; (d) they are very expensive. For me the electric pump is better because my generator is mounted far above the waterline so should work even with severe flooding.
Dockhead,

Question: How do you find the time to write over 10,000 posts, most of them like this??? You're like a posting sevant.

Ken
Kenomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 19:05   #52
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The boat: Cowes (Winter), Above 60N (Summer); me: somewhere in the air!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 21,307
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Dockhead,

Question: How do you find the time to write over 10,000 posts, most of them like this??? You're like a posting sevant.

Ken
I'm quite sure whether that was a compliment or not, but I'll say thank you just in case

Nervous tic I guess. Especially when I'm off the boat and thus no tools to keep my hands busy
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 19:20   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Here is some news straight from the owner himself:

Crew rescued as yacht sinks off Evans Head | Echonetdaily

doesn't explain it all but gives an insight on why she was abandoned.

Mike was a member of the gliding club I belong to and it is particularly sad as they sold up everything to go cruising as his wife has MS. A lovely fun couple. Hopefully it can be salvaged and repaired.

It is absolutely disgraceful that the vessel was looted the way it was. That is not what I would expect here in Australia. Maybe a sign of the times!

Andrew
elandra65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2014, 23:49   #54
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Surprised to read your threads and see the sad photo of Red Sky beached on Australia's East Coast. I'm based in Yamba, NSW, just to the south of where the boat came aground. There's been absolutely nothing reported in the local or statewide news about the boat coming ashore, nothing reported since the crew were picked up offshore. Saddened to hear some mongrels have already stripped her , don't like her chances of being re floated , we have a heavy weather system battering the coast from the East, with more to come over the coming days. Makes you think if the crew had hung in there until daybreak and tried to stabilise the situation until the local marine rescue got a line to them, could have saved the boat. Always easy to asses the situation from the comfort of your own lounge I guess..Good looking boat, sad loss..
yamba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2014, 12:54   #55
Registered User
 
svmariane's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Currently in South Pacific. Home Port: Vienna, Austria
Boat: Celestial, Stay'sl-Rigged Sloop, 48 ft
Posts: 1,184
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by elandra65 View Post
Here is some news straight from the owner himself:

Crew rescued as yacht sinks off Evans Head | Echonetdaily

doesn't explain it all but gives an insight on why she was abandoned.

Andrew
Thanks for that link, with the owner's remarks down in the comments section.
__________________
"Being offended is not the same thing as being right." Dave Barry.
svmariane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2014, 15:09   #56
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 18,430
Re: Loss of the RedSky

I looked at a custom steel cutter at Ft Pierce when I was looking for a boat.
Had a watertight bulkhead forward, with a large watertight door.
All thru-hulls were in one place and located in a "seachest" , think large pipe that the top was well above waterline so that if any broke the sea chest would just fill to the water line, this sea chest was in the engine room, which had another watertight bulkhead and the same huge watertight door.
May still be there for sale
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2014, 17:46   #57
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
My God, A Moody damages its rudder! How long will it be before Punch Mommy gets this up on his thread?
You seem to get pouty pretty easily dude. But "Punch Mommy" - please - you really can do better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Ah, take it easy on Smack, Robert, give him a break. He was obviously traumatized by someone posting photos of broken Hunters, and nowadays it makes him feel better to post thousands of photos of supposedly better boats which also get broken.

Of course no one ever argued that expensive boats never break or can't be broken. But that's not the point.
Wrong again Dock. Go ahead and compare the number of production boats damaged threads to the BWC boats damaged threads and get back to me with that ratio. I'll wait.

Actually, it is precisely the point that BWC boats and production boats can be broken. If a newb boat buyer thinks differently - he can easily get into a dangerous situation thinking the boat is bullet-proof. We've seen it many times.

In fact, we might have just seen it again.

Now - you guys play nice - and talk RS off the ledge. I need to get back to my skiing vacation.
smackdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2014, 22:01   #58
Registered User
 
Exile's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Land of Disenchantment
Boat: Bristol 47.7
Posts: 3,332
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You seem to get pouty pretty easily dude. But "Punch Mommy" - please - you really can do better than that.

I was actually starting to warm to it.

Wrong again Dock. Go ahead and compare the number of production boats damaged threads to the BWC boats damaged threads and get back to me with that ratio. I'll wait.

Not sure what this one is supposed to prove, unless your sailing experience derives almost entirely via the internet.

Actually, it is precisely the point that BWC boats and production boats can be broken. If a newb boat buyer thinks differently - he can easily get into a dangerous situation thinking the boat is bullet-proof. We've seen it many times.

We have? We've certainly seen dangerous situations involving all manner of different boats. But have we seen dangerous scenarios because a newbie boat owner was somehow led to believe that his or her boat was somehow "bullet-proof?" What about all those refit threads? Is this that same imaginary curmudgeon on the dock who keeps hassling Smack to go out in the storm, but only if it's in a bluewater boat? Is all this vacation time causing flashbacks again?

In fact, we might have just seen it again.

Do you know something about this latest incident that you're keeping from us? Please, do tell. Maybe it was faulty bottom prep? Or was that a "repair?" But it was a Moody, not an Oyster. Of course, it never would have foundered if it was a Hunter. How am I doing?

Now - you guys play nice - and talk RS off the ledge. I need to get back to my skiing vacation.
These threads aren't nearly as comical without you, Smack. Hurry back, please.
Exile is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2015, 17:24   #59
Registered User
 
Moody Mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Boat: Laurent Giles designed Carbineer 46
Posts: 140
Re: Loss of the RedSky

Hi All ,
I am the owner of Red Sky or I was until the insurance took her over. Just so you all know exactly what happened . At 1.45 am on the 12 December 2014 we hit a wave recorder buoy that had gone adrift from Byron bay a few weeks earlier. The buoy had dragged its mooring anchor South until reanchoring itself on a foul Bottom 19 ks off Evans Head. The Dynema cable went around our keel and the buoy jammed between the hull and top of the rudder. When the dynema pulled tight our rudder broke out of its bearings bending the 2 inch shaft and the dynema cabel cut through the fiberglass keel just above the lead. We could not stop the inflow Infact the bilge pump was basically pumping straight from the ocean . At this stage we didn't know what we had hit and I thought it was a log or container. When we were filly aboard the Tanker the crew told us they could see the buoy and identified it by the flash sequence. Know one knew the Buoy had gone missing earlier because Manly Hydraulics the buoys owners did not report it. The crew checked there charts & the buoy was defiantly not supposed to be in that location. Once Red Sky washed ashore it was easy to see by the damage what had happend . Red antifouling from the buoy was on the hull the cuts from the dynema cabel etc. the incident is now under investigation by Maritime Services NSW. Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421630583.315016.jpg
Views:	308
Size:	74.7 KB
ID:	95683Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421630609.947784.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	91.7 KB
ID:	95684Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421630640.554036.jpg
Views:	261
Size:	98.3 KB
ID:	95685Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421630662.755055.jpg
Views:	264
Size:	101.5 KB
ID:	95686


Moody Mike
Moody Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-01-2015, 17:53   #60
Senior Cruiser
 
Steadman Uhlich's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2018 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Available as Crew in 2018
Posts: 5,566
Re: Loss of the RedSky

To Moody Mike:

Thanks for posting the photos of the damage and the accurate account of what happened to your boat.

The strength of the dyneema cable is impressive and your post educational about the damage one could cause to a boat.

I am sorry to hear about your loss.

Best wishes for smooth sailing in your future.
__________________

__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2018? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steadman Uhlich is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Power Loss in Tohatsu 5HP Outboard ssullivan Engines and Propulsion Systems 64 30-11-2015 13:17
RPM Loss Question ssullivan Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 04-06-2008 12:59
Loss of speed in C36 Starboat Propellers & Drive Systems 7 01-06-2007 00:26
A Grounding, Total Loss Jim H General Sailing Forum 14 24-12-2005 08:57
Instant Weight Loss GordMay Provisioning: Food & Drink 6 25-08-2005 00:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:51.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.