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Old 27-01-2010, 15:30   #1
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Looking for CamberSpar Experiences

As the owner of an Endeavourcat I have a Camberspar jib. I have noticed that we have a number of Manta and Freedom owners who also have Camberspar Jibs. I was wondering if anyone has any experience using the outhaul and how much one really gains by using it. So far I have just left mine set in the center position and ignore it. I was wondering if most other people do the same or something else. I get what I consider pretty good results with my setting but was wondering if I could do better.

Dave Berig told me to just treat it like any other outhaul. Considering that it is a bit of a PIA to change the setting I haven't really used it.

With my setting I can point up to about 50 degrees to the true wind (tack angles 100 degrees over the ground) and still hold pretty good speed. At low speeds I usually do 60% of the windspeed or better except dead downwind. Considering my boat probably is the picture shown next to the definition of Condomaran I don't consider this at all bad.

So Camberspar users please share your experience.
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Old 27-01-2010, 18:44   #2
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No outhaul on ours - year 2000 model boat. Trying to picture how the outhaul is rigged on the Endeavourcat....

As for the camber spar, I just want to mention that I LOVE THE DAMN THING for its ease of use and ability to maintain sail shape at any sheeting angle. Point the boat where you will, then just trim the sheet. No muss no fuss.

I have sailed wing & wing downwind with good success. Cats are not known for sailing DDW, but by walking the camber spar to the side I want (your outhaul may help there) I have been able to eat "conventially" rigged cats for lunch whille on a DDW leg.

Anyway, not sure I'm much help answering your question. Did I mention that I LOVE THE DAMN THING?
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:00   #3
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Mark, I had a mishap with mine a couple of years ago and bent the spar tube. I called Dave Bierig (he answers his own phone) to order a replacement tube and asked him about the three holes in the rear fitting that the slipring rides on. I'm not quite sure what the proper term for the piece is, but there is a pin that locks the clew slide ring in one of three positions. I asled him what they were for since it didn't say in the literature I had on the unit. He said it was the outhaul and that you treat it just like any other outhaul. I assume this means you flatten the sail by locking the slide ring in the stern most hole for fresh winds and put it in the forward hole for light winds. I've never actually tried it and was wondering if it made much difference. You essentially have to drop the sail and rotate spar to remove tension from the sail move the ring and rotate the spar back. It's kind of a pain to do. Like you, I love the thing. Just wonder if I'm using it to my best advantage.
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:09   #4
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Interesting.... I'm going to investigate this and see what I can come up with. Trying to picture where I would rig an outhaul block, or if it would even be worth the effort...
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:21   #5
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I tried to move it once without releasing the tension on the sail, no way, even with the electric winch. I think this is somenthing you make a decision about once a day and leave it there. Like I said I just put mine in the middle position and left it there.
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:24   #6
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Presumably, this set-up precludes roller furling???
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:26   #7
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It does preclude roller furling, but you can get it put of the way by attaching the halyard to the clew and raising it out of the way. I'll see if I can find some pictures.
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Old 27-01-2010, 19:49   #8
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I have attempted to attach a picture to this message, I hope it works. The picture is of the clew end of the camberspar without the sail. If you blow it up enough you'll notice a slip ring that has two protrusions that look somewhat like cow horns that attach to the actual clew of teh sail which is in a pocket on the sail. This rides on a sliding bushing that has a hole it it that the locking pin passes through. In the picture the bushing is in the middle position. You can see a hole forward and aft of it's current position. The designer says that the hole positions are essentially a 3 position outhaul and that you choose which hole just like you would any other outhaul. The rearmost hole flattens the sail, the forward hole makes it fuller and the middle hole is in between. I have never used aything but the middle hole, except once when I pulled the pin trying to adjust it while the sail was up, but I couldn't move the bushing on the pole while the sail had tension on it.
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Old 28-01-2010, 09:39   #9
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I sailed with a Berig made sail(full battons in jib) for 10 years on a high speed tri. when wind hits 8k or more it is a super sail. Less wind and I dropped it put a few ties on it and hanked a light big ripstop jenny with only a few hanks above it. If wind picked up I peeled off jenny made of nylon easy to bag and raised camber spar sail (still hanked on). Be careful of sails not made by Berig I have seen some poor attempts.
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Old 28-01-2010, 11:58   #10
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Eyschulman, did you ever adjust the outhaul or did you treat it like I did and leave it in one position? Did you even know that there was an outhaul? Until I talked to Dave Bierig, I had no idea those holes represented an outhaul, it's not mentioned in the literature I got with the boat.
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Old 28-01-2010, 13:12   #11
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Bill since i only used the sail at 8k or above I did not adjust- if used in lighter air adjustment probably needed( My sail was an early model and pulling out the end fiting for out haul not easy)-but I believe the sail to be a pig in light air-too heavy with spar and full battons and just hung toward midline I noticed same thing on other boats out sailing with camberspar jib. For light air I used a heavy ripstop( heavy ripstop is actually pretty light 1.5-2 oz) jenny which would fill out well.
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Old 28-01-2010, 13:16   #12
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Thanks, my sail was made by Doyle and has only standard battens. It does ok in light air but I'm looking to get a spinnaker to see if I can do a little better in light air.
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Old 28-01-2010, 14:27   #13
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Bill if you do a spinaker it will not work well upwind in light air-my suggestion is a flat gennaker (spinaker material) easier to handle(can also be riged to continuous line roller furler) and can give you some upwind use along with deep reaching multis don't do well dead down wind best to tack(jib) downwind. If you can get a six or eight foot pole out front for your genaker you can fly all three sails. The theoretical fastest route down wind with a good multi and 10 or more knots of air is a fast reach all sails up (including flat spin. like sail) as boat speeds up apparent wind moves forward with increaeing boat speed point off and as boat slows come up like a rear end wiggle down wind. You basicly sail by the tell tails. I don't know if the endeavour cat is fast enough to have great benefit from this but the ease of handeling and slight upwind ability of flat genaker still applies.
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Old 28-01-2010, 14:32   #14
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I'll give that some thought. Thanks.
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Old 28-01-2010, 17:27   #15
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Bill, I never adjusted mine. It is just not conducive to every day adjustments. I did love the sail though. You have to be careful when jibing in high winds as you will break it when it comes up hard against the sheet. A method I used to counteract this was to release the rope clutch after the sail started its swing. There was enough friction caused by the passage of the sheet though the open rope clutch and pulleys to slow the sail down but not cause the abrupt stop. The sail would wind up swinging past 90 degrees on the opposite tack before stopping. Then I would sheet it back in to what ever angle was appropriate. I had that setup on my Manta.
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