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Old 12-04-2011, 15:33   #61
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pirate Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

And here we revert to an arguement in a previous thread...
How would you rig your lights while hove to at night...
and how many people on crewed boats would have the smallest idea of what your lights meant...
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Old 12-04-2011, 15:33   #62
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Re: Singlehanding Sub Forum Possible?

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The term underway is essential. If a solo guy is hove to and sleeping, I'm willing to say he's not underway. At night in 10' seas was given as an example but I'm guessing the solo guy won't be fast asleep in 10' seas.
I think we all know that if a guy is hove to and a megatanker comes along on a collision course, the solo guy may become flotsam. That's the risk. Is it less risk than your daily commute? Hell yes.
You are misusing the term "not underway" as pointed out by someone else. Regardless ... I'd consider a vessel with all the crew asleep or otherwise unable to have a proper lookout to be "not under command" and should show appropriate lights/shapes/appearance.
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Old 12-04-2011, 15:59   #63
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

I was once making a night sail from St Maarten to Antiguia when, as darkness approached a Tyana 37 a half mile in front of me came to a stop and lowered its sails. Fearing a problem I hailed them on my VHF to offer my asstiance. They reasponed that they'd read in a Cruising guide that one should not sail at night therefore they'd stopped for the night.
In my opinion they were excelllent canidates for a Darwin award.

What the heck is next, pullng over to the side of the interstate highway, turning on your emergancy flashers and going to sleep?

It seems we've entered an age when everyone thinks that "I want to therefore I will".

Common sense is becoming a lost art form.
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Old 12-04-2011, 16:02   #64
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pirate Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A View Post
I was once making a night sail from St Maarten to Antiguia when, as darkness approached a Tyana 37 a half mile in front of me came to a stop and lowered its sails. Fearing a problem I hailed them on my VHF to offer my asstiance. They reasponed that they'd read in a Cruising guide that one should not sail at night therefore they'd stopped for the night.
In my opinion they were excelllent canidates for a Darwin award.

What the heck is next, pullng over to the side of the interstate highway, turning on your emergancy flashers and going to sleep?

It seems we've entered an age when everyone thinks that "I want to therefore I will".

Common sense is becoming a lost art form.
ROTFLMBO..........
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Old 12-04-2011, 17:23   #65
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Are we discussing single handing or whether to set up a sub-forum on single handing?? If it's the latter, can see a Single Handed Forum for those new to the list and/or someone doing an eyeball search for things relating to single handing. It's a real pain to have to go through each forum to find some topic that is either fuzzy or misplaced. The electronic search on Google, etc. as well as this forum really isn't all that good. Just did a search for an issue with my 3gm30 Yanmar and Racor filter and got lalmost no information despite the fact that the answer had been lurking here all along.

If the issue is Single Handing, do it most of the time. Seldom keep a watch at sea, either electronically or eyeball. Sleep when I want to though usually in the cockpit and seldom for more than a couple hours at a stretch. I just don't sleep all that soundly on land or at sea. When I am more than 4 hours at hull speed from anything I don't want to hit or run into, I stay awake. I also usually am on deck in shipping lanes and costal sailing. After many months at sea and years of single handing, have found that that is where the traffic and hard things are. Nearly got run down by a freighter off of Santa Barbara while keeping a watch. It was obvious the ship didn't keep one. On the open ocean, have seen very few ships and never in danger of a collision. Surprizing how many turn up on the AIS that I never knew were out there before, though.

I almost never touch the helm. The self steering vane handles the sailing duties, the A/P under power. In areas like SF Bay, I pop in and out of the cabin occasionally but would never leave the deck for more than a minute or two. There is just too much traffic. Coastwise, I usually stay awake and on deck though you can only do that for so long. Once sailed from SF to Point Conception without sleep or self-steering. Boy was I looney at the end. Would undoubtedly have been way safer and smarter to heave to and catch a couple of hours of sleep after the second night. Plan my coastal sailing with no more than 48 hours without the ability to take a solid sleep. Now, I'm sure I'm well rested for the last day before landfall after a passage.
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Old 12-04-2011, 20:23   #66
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

The threads split. This one is the solo sailing thread.
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Old 12-04-2011, 21:33   #67
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

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Joshua Slocum is turning over in his grave. Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!
Amen Brother, I have nearly 50,000 sea miles alone in my life so far. But I'm not sucidal either. I've never came close to a collison at sea, it's big out there and I don't sail in the shipping lanes. Maybe he needs to build a motorhome in that barn.....Michael..
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Old 13-04-2011, 17:14   #68
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

G'Day all,

Re legality: The continued acceptance by the authorities of highly publicized long distance solo races seems to indicate that in practice the legality of single handing is not an issue.

Re morality: For the typical cruising yacht (ie small and slow by maritime standards) the chances of a collision caused by a single hander doing great damage to another vessel is small indeed. For higher speed vessels, ie open 60 type racing yachts, the issue is not so clear cut. Should one of these rocket ships hit another small vessel at speeds near to 30 knots, the chance for significant damage or injury is much greater.

Re repercussions to a single hander in the event of a collision: When Jessica Watson had her much discussed collision with the merchant vessel, there was a formal inquiry. The findings apportioned blame to both vessels, but there were NO formal sanctions visited upon Jessica. Her voyage continued after repairs were done. She was not fined, jailed or even censured by the authorities.

So, it seems that responsible single handing, while contravening Colregs, is accepted by authority, and we shouldn't be spending time worrying about it as cruisers. One has the choice of participating or not, based on one's own risk analysis, but to insist that others not single hand is out of line.

Cheers,

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Old 13-04-2011, 17:32   #69
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

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You are misusing the term "not underway" as pointed out by someone else. Regardless ... I'd consider a vessel with all the crew asleep or otherwise unable to have a proper lookout to be "not under command" and should show appropriate lights/shapes
Sorry hove too, is simple, you show normal sailing lights. You are underway, and in fact you may even be making way. You are most certainly "not under command" as, such a definition has nothing to do with crew

the definition of not under command " means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel"

I would argue that you have not lost the ability to control the boat while hove-too, ( for example you can still sail , or start the engine), hence you are most definitely "under command"

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Old 13-04-2011, 18:24   #70
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

I'm going to install the masthead lights for 'minesweeping'. That should keep the iron ships away at night.
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Old 13-04-2011, 19:17   #71
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

LOL Good one.
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Old 13-04-2011, 19:34   #72
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

This thread is patently ridiculous. Having never sailed solo, I can't really make a firsthand comment. My late friend, who sailed solo transpacs, found the ocean quite empty for napping. The ocean is indeed big. In fact, I might challenge you to find a safer place to take a nap than out in a boat in the middle of an empty ocean.

Honestly, there are places where "one in a million" is a pretty realistic estimate.

Think about it this way: If you haven't seen anything at all, for ten days, why would you be so worried about taking a nap for a spell?

Probably taking a nap in the park on Sunday is much riskier!
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Old 13-04-2011, 19:40   #73
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

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Sorry hove too, is simple, you show normal sailing lights. You are underway, and in fact you may even be making way. You are most certainly "not under command" as, such a definition has nothing to do with crew

the definition of not under command " means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel"

I would argue that you have not lost the ability to control the boat while hove-too, ( for example you can still sail , or start the engine), hence you are most definitely "under command"

Dave
Well, let's disagree and leave it at that. Whether one is hove to or not is irrelevant. If crew of a vessel underway (not anchored/moored/docked/runaground) is unavailable to maintain a lookout and not in immediate control of its engines/sails/steering (such as being unconscious due to sleep or accident, whatever), the vessel is not under command as the crew is unable to manoeuvre.
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Old 13-04-2011, 21:09   #74
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

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Well, let's disagree and leave it at that. Whether one is hove to or not is irrelevant. If crew of a vessel underway (not anchored/moored/docked/runaground) is unavailable to maintain a lookout and not in immediate control of its engines/sails/steering (such as being unconscious due to sleep or accident, whatever), the vessel is not under command as the crew is unable to manoeuvre.
You really need to stay in the harbor, let it go. Michael
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Old 13-04-2011, 21:47   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce

Well, let's disagree and leave it at that. Whether one is hove to or not is irrelevant. If crew of a vessel underway (not anchored/moored/docked/runaground) is unavailable to maintain a lookout and not in immediate control of its engines/sails/steering (such as being unconscious due to sleep or accident, whatever), the vessel is not under command as the crew is unable to manoeuvre.
You have a fundamental mis understanding of " not under command " this is generally taken as say a motor vessel unable to start engines or she doesn't answer her rudder. It would not apply to crew unless all the crew were incapacitated to the extent that the ship could not be controlled in any way.

In the case of "hove too" the vessel is clearly underway. Secondly the crew are not incapacitated ( even if asleep) nor is the requirement to keep watch removed while Hove to. Clearly normal lights apply. Given anyway that I've never seen sailboats rigged to display " not under command " i.e. two vertical red lights. Your view is somewhat irrelevant.

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