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Old 11-04-2011, 15:01   #46
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Re: Public apology for percieved abuse...

No offense taken, boatman.
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Old 11-04-2011, 15:04   #47
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

There has to be some consideration of the boat you are in versus the boats you are likely to hit while sleeping soundly.
My brother,rip, did the Seychelles to Madigascar solo in the seventies (SnowGoose Meander - though the 'er had gone off on a bigger cat). His technique was to cat nap. Alarm set for twenty minutes, two minute patrol around the decks and time for night sight to recover, tidy and trim, and back to bed. His only comment was that the commercial vessels are faster now and maybe fifteen minutes is the limit, though he was awakened when three up by the hairs on the back of his neck. Watch was fast asleep with a freighter a half mile off.
I'd intended to do the Biscay in my own Prout single handed. Others do it regularly. Allowing for the heavy traffic lanes reduces contacts during semi resting periods, and there is always the option of putting on the lights and chugging along dead slow. The risk is always there, freak wave or semi sunk container/log/house nowadays. I'd rather die out there, fighting the devil, than sat in a car on the motor way trying to stop my blood leaking away.
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Old 11-04-2011, 18:44   #48
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

so far i have been fortunate enough to find rew--iknow ther ewillbe passages made by me in bird without added crew -- i look to boaty and the rest of ye who have sailed far for my info and nerve, as it were---- until i need to sail solo, i will keep on finding crew for bird-- she is lot of boat and is fun to sail--
i have sailed shorthanded--but isnt the same. shorthanded -- you are still sharing watch time and getting rest on a semi regular basis. and someone is always on watch.
when i was working in intensive care, there was no rest fo rthe weary-- cat naps were how we managed to survive the 12 hour nights--- dont get caught -- yer fired if caught--lol--- so catnaps are good to use as a tool. but then, i wont be doing htis until i HAVE to--- by then i will have a handle on my simrad and gps and should be used to my boat.....
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:18   #49
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Re: Singlehanding Sub Forum Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
I thought that I would take this moment to compliment you guys on an even handed, civil discourse, despite the passionate nature of the opinions held by the conversants!

I'm so proud ; -)
And particularly with subsequent apologies offered and accepted but consider the HUGE dampening effect here. Everyone's being so nice that the thread has drifted away.

I was seriously dissapointed to see Marks Johnson & Pierce take the stands they did. Essentially that solo long distance is flatly irresponsible (Johnson) and selfish (Pierce). Boatman called them both on it and the be nice rule apparently kicked in.

But really there's quite a distinction here and it might be in the language. The term underway is essential. If a solo guy is hove to and sleeping, I'm willing to say he's not underway. At night in 10' seas was given as an example but I'm guessing the solo guy won't be fast asleep in 10' seas.
I think we all know that if a guy is hove to and a megatanker comes along on a collision course, the solo guy may become flotsam. That's the risk. Is it less risk than your daily commute? Hell yes.

Most other scenarios would allow a course change by the multi-crewed vessel. If there is a god may he/she/it protect us from people wanting to legislate all personal freedoms away.

A solo vessel underway is a whole different story. This is where I think the discussion could get interesting. Now the key is watch-keeping. My view is the guy with the alarm clock going off every 15 or 20 min is as OK now as it has been historically and screw the late-comers who want to make every little thing in life "safer". Beyond that, electronics has really changed watch-keeping. Is sleeping while all the electronics watch for you, and the autopilot steers a better course than you can irresponsible or selfish? I don't think so.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:24   #50
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Re: Singlehanding Sub Forum Possible?

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But really there's quite a distinction here and it might be in the language. The term underway is essential. If a solo guy is hove to and sleeping, I'm willing to say he's not underway.

So here we have an example of a non-solo sailor who is a danger to themselves and others by not knowing the rules of the road. A hove-to boat is both underway and making way:

underway - yes I know it's only wikipedia but it is correct in this case - I know my rules.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:28   #51
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

It is still the the obligation of the faster boat to avoid the slower boat where reasonably possible.
The other side of making way without a reasonable watch interval is self regulating. These are the guys that don't arrive on the intended coast line by bad luck or negligence.
The chance of them doing damage to a yacht (similar vessel) underway has to more down to the speed of each. Again the faster boat should do the avoiding, whatever the regs say about tacks, etc. Common sense is the rule of sailors, regs are for lawyers and boaters that can afford them.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:29   #52
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

I’d like to rejoin the discussion with the perspective of a person who sailed singlehandled for almost ten years.
The subject of sleep is discussed amongst us singlehandleres over many a cool one, as we all recognize the inherent dangers that we voluntarily place are selves.
The process of moving our boats from one place to another is all about risk-management. The subject of sleep is not when do we sleep, but rather when do we not sleep as sleep deprivation is the main source of most of the mental mistakes that are made in a passage.
Almost all of us can and do make 36 hour passages without sleep.. If the passage is going to take longer you need to be thinking about establishing a sleep pattern at about 15 hours. Then you must decide where and how is the sleep going to be safe.
The 15 minute nap is predicated on the folly that a vessel traveling at 35 knots on a collision course with you can appear over the horizon and run you down in the space of 15 minutes. First, in all my sailing experience I’ve never seen a commercial vessel move at over 15 knots, they are required to practice fuel economy. Second, the mathematical odds of a collision reduces this to a acceptable risk, If you’re still worried about shipping, take your longer nap between sunrise and noon, when it’s daylight and the first team is on the bridge of the approaching vessel.
The best way to avoid shipping traffic is to avoid shipping lanes. The best way to avoid other pleasure craft is to sail where they are not, to take a nap. Many times I extended my passage by sailing as much as 100 miles offshore for a short nap. To me, sailing was preferred to sitting at anchor anyway so it became a win-win deal.
Never go below to sleep! Rig the radar so that you can maintain a radar watch from the cockpit. Have self-steering. Never take a nap when closer than 10 miles to something you really don’t want your boat to hit (rocks, reefs, dirt). Never lay a hull to sleep except in an emergency. I ran a DR line on a paper chart (gasp) and marked my position hourly.
There are quite a few more little tricks to a safe passage, but that hits the main ones. One more thing, when in port, never admit to the self-righteous that you singlehandle.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:56   #53
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Absolutely John A. Nicely put in a single post.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:10   #54
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pirate Re: Singlehanding Sub Forum Possible?

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Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis View Post
So here we have an example of a non-solo sailor who is a danger to themselves and others by not knowing the rules of the road. A hove-to boat is both underway and making way:

... I know my rules.
Eleven: "Common sense is the rule of sailors, regs are for lawyers and boaters that can afford them."

Thrust and parry, sir.

Rules are the real nemesis.

I might add that the be nice rule may well cover calling me a "non-solo sailor" in this context.

There was a thread last week where the point was made that there are several types of arguments or arguers, or something. I think Nemesis' comment fits squarely in one of those types. The hove to aspect was not the issue I outlined, which was: is electronic watchkeeping "close enough for government work"? I think it is.

My actual comment BTW was: "If a solo guy is hove to and sleeping, I'm willing to say he's not underway." Emphasis added for emphasis.

This is why pyrats say: Aaarrrrgggggg!, or whatever they say.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:29   #55
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Definitions are important to a dancer on the head of a pin.

It so seldom matters what you're willing to say; colregs would consider you underway when you're hove to IMO, my opinion in the matter holding equally little weight. Legal means something entirely different in the context of international waters and territorial waters.

So on and so forth.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:41   #56
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Re: Singlehanding Sub Forum Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgzzzz View Post
But really there's quite a distinction here and it might be in the language. The term underway is essential. If a solo guy is hove to and sleeping, I'm willing to say he's not underway. At night in 10' seas was given as an example but I'm guessing the solo guy won't be fast asleep in 10' seas.
Whilst I am with Boatman on the subject of singlehanding. I have to correct your use of terminology.

A boat is underway at all times when not connected to the bottom by some form of anchor or mooring, or secured alongside.

Thus even when hove to, she is still underway. If she is moving, the boat is "makingway".

Actually on my last boat, even when hove to, I was making way (about 4 kts sideways!)
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:48   #57
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Three fishermen ran aground earlier this year near Half Moon Bay, CA. They were all asleep but the vessel was on auto-pilot. Fortunately, they only hit the beach and not something else.

Soloed or crewed, ... well you know the answer.



http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...ula&id=7884159
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:14   #58
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

Have single handed for over fifty years. Have never hit or been hit by any craft. Never even close. Stay wake until off shore. Close calls -none, of course i do not consider a vessel within one quarter or a half mile from me a close call. Use AIS and radar warnings now. Ships coming to observe or "rescue" are among the greatest dangers at sea.
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Old 12-04-2011, 14:45   #59
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pirate Re: Walking the plank in sea snake infested waters

Mates, I stand corrected of imprecision of language. My actual point, however poorly made, was to draw a distinction between Boatman's example of the solo being asleep while hove to and being hit by a crewed vessel, and the solo who's asleep but on course, at speed, with one or more electronic warning systems activated.

Perhaps I am simply wrong about there being a distinction.
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Old 12-04-2011, 15:01   #60
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Re: Long Distance Solo Sailing

tgzzzz,
No harm no foul.

Public forums are some of the most opinjonated places on earth for a conversation, and this forum is one of the most civil.
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