Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-08-2010, 23:08   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 17
Drum, 25 foot trimaran, completed from a kit in Portland, OR in 1972
Owners: Michael and Cordelia McMinn. The two sailed to Hawaii and lived on various islands before departing in May of 1976 from Hanalei Bay, Kauai for Port Angeles, WA. Both were extremely skilled and resourceful sailors. They would both be 60 years old today.

The RCMP and FBI document four reputable sitings around the ETA (June) in the area of northwestern Vancouver Is and as far south as 25 miles north of Port Angeles in Canadian waters. Positive sitings are only of the boat and of one individual not matching the description of either owner.

Many other details exist which are not appropriate to post in this forum but which lend heavily to the theory of hi-jacking.

It was of course a long time ago, but as Michael's brother, I'm partial to keep searching for a lead. My aim in this and other forums is to perhaps jog the memory of the person(s) who might still be able to provide any missing pieces to the puzzle. Obviously, the window for this likelihood is swiftly closing.
__________________

__________________
subdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2010, 23:49   #17
Registered User
 
Stillraining's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin 41 CC Ketch
Posts: 2,876
Sorry for your loss...Good luck.
__________________

__________________
"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
Stillraining is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 11:45   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
FSMike's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bahamas/Florida
Boat: Solaris Sunstar 36' catamaran
Posts: 2,654
Images: 5
It is indeed a long time ago but I wish you success.
__________________
Sail Fast Live Slow
FSMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 12:51   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
The author Clive Cussler has a foundation called NUMA where he looks for sunken ships of historical value. He wrote a book about his searches though I can't remember the name. It talked a lot about how expensive they were and how hard it was to find the boats. I'm sorry to say that the currents in those areas would make it very difficult to find the tri even if you knew exactly where it was.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 13:16   #20
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,872
I can understand your desire and wish you the very best in your search.

If you had any photos of the boat and suspected area it might help to jog a memory.

In those days (1976) Vessel Traffic Management would often call up us commercial guys…(I used to run tug boats then out of Vancouver) to get an identification on small craft.

May often had fog banks and they would be extra prudent about identifying non-reporting traffic, so perhaps they may have something of use in their radio archives..

As you know, those water can be very deep and the composite material of the boat not a very hard return. There are quite a few companies in that area who develop remote submersibles who may be willing to donate some time to visually investigate a promising site for a good cause.

Good luck!
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 13:29   #21
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by subdude View Post
Positive sitings are only of the boat and of one individual not matching the description of either owner
Speculating wildly here........

But if foul play was involved, not automatic that the vessel itself was sunk. Might have been later sold on or even abandoned somewhere.

Just because it would seem sensible to have scuttled her doesn't mean that actually happened. Criminals tend towards the disorganised, even the more organised groups (big and small) - especially at the f#ckwit end of the drugs trade (anyone in day to day contact) as even if not tasting the product personally f#ckwittery nonetheless tends to rub off . on decisions both big and small.

I would consider doing your own boat trip along their (likely) route and talk to folks in person (albeit I wouldn't start with the drugs story ) and try to get a feel for 1976.

But unless your info has them with personal linkage to the drugs trade (rather than simply that drug smugglers were known to have been active in the area at that time) my money would 99% be on bad luck & bad weather - a thousand small boat / weather / bad luck events that could together have caused their dissapearance.

Some mysteries are never solved. some are best that way..........
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2010, 14:40   #22
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
I wouldn't be overly surprised that a home-built Searunner (circa 1970's) didn't make it home.
Best of luck in your search!
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 09:40   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
So David M...please explain your posted examples...I must fail the test I don't see anything but what looks like scratched metal.?...or is that a close up of the left quarter panel of a 100,00 Mercedes..
What you see in those images are sand waves. I pulled those images from Google Images to show people what a typical side scan image looks like. The vertical part down the middle is essentially a blind spot for the instrument.

Here are some images of objects sitting on the bottom....




On the last one, you can see that the shadow sometimes helps in defining the shape of the object. Without it you would not really see the bridge.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 09:51   #24
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
The author Clive Cussler has a foundation called NUMA where he looks for sunken ships of historical value. He wrote a book about his searches though I can't remember the name. It talked a lot about how expensive they were and how hard it was to find the boats. I'm sorry to say that the currents in those areas would make it very difficult to find the tri even if you knew exactly where it was.
The way it sometimes works is that you take a lower frequency side scan, set up a grid and start what is called "mowing the lawn". The lower frequency units cover a much larger surface area. While mowing the lawn, you tag all the contacts that might be the object you are looking for. You then come back with a higher frequency side scan, which have much better resolution, to better confirm the shape of the tagged objects.

I have done this in SF Bay which has high currents and found what we were looking for. Things can be found as long as they were not buried by their own weight in a soft bottom or buried by shifting sediment.

Its amazing all the man made stuff that is down there. Much of it is stuff that looks like it was originally designed to float.

It would be cool to make a map of all this stuff with images but I don't think anyone would be willing to pay the cost.

The Corps of Engineers made a map of the bottoms topography a number of years ago but the resolution of the end product is not good enough to see the smaller man made objects that are down there.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 09:55   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
I defer to David M because he has actual practical experience. OTOH my son dropped a screwdriver, with a bright orange handle, over the side while we were at dock and I couldn't find it when I went down with scuba gear.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 09:58   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Yup, I know how that goes Charlie.

Its amazing how that soft mud under the boat makes tools disappear real fast. And even more frustrating, how a big magnet can never seem to find it.

I guess its like jam on toast where when you drop it, the tool probably goes under the boat somewhat where a magnet on a line will never get to it.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 11:15   #27
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,793
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
Kudos to David M for clear information. I spent a decade working on side-scan sonar and was the project manager for development of one of the first multi-beam side-scan systems.

Some fine points:

1. the higher the area rate of coverage the greater the cost.
2. the higher the resolution the greater the cost.
3. 1 & 2 are in conflict so if you want both you will spend a lot.
4. Boat and tow winch operation can be a very significant challenge if the depths vary quickly, particularly at higher boat speeds. Side-scan towbodies make interesting and expensive anchors.

As David M pointed out, imagery interpretation is nontrivial. Klein Associates in New Hampshire, now part of L3 used to give first-rate classes in side-scan interpretation. I suspect they still do. There is a copy of their training manual on EBay for $100.

There is also an EG&G towfish for sale for $5000. No tow cable, no topside processor. Decent bit of equipment but you can miss a lot with a 100kHz system. For a fish, winch, rotating coupling, and processor I'd expect to pay around 50k used and 200k or more new for entry-level stuff. Lease costs are commensurate with the capital investment.

It is very cool technology and there isn't a better way to find stuff in open water. Bob Ballard used side scan to find the Titanic, laser optics to map out the debris field, and ROVs for the detailed imagery.
__________________
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2010, 11:23   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Thanks for the post Auspicious. That really helps define what is involved with a side-scan survey.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 09:57   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Re: Locating Sunken Boat

My name is Lynn Hudak from Sumter SC....this morning in our paper The Item there is a unsolved death from 1976 of a male and a female that were killed in 1976 on Interstate 95 in Sumter County. They were buried as John and Jane Doe.

As of this morning there is a possibility that they are Michael McMinn and his wife Cordelia McMinn from OR.

Please notify Rob Cottingham rcottingham@theitem.com
(803) 774-1225
__________________
LynnMarie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 11:49   #30
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: Locating Sunken Boat

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, LynnMarie.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Challenge: Raising a Half-Sunken Boat DriftingNowhere Challenges 42 24-03-2010 17:10
Raised a Sunken Boat Today Chief Engineer Construction, Maintenance & Refit 26 11-03-2010 19:58
Need Lat / Long of Sunken Atoll Duckhead Pacific & South China Sea 7 11-12-2009 11:25
Locating Sailor Friends orion1 Meets & Greets 16 28-06-2006 10:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.