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Old 23-04-2015, 09:08   #1
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Living on anchor in the US

Hello all, new to the boards. Here's my story. I crewed on a big boat for 3.5 years - 1975-78, though they never let me steer. CV67 - USS Kennedy. They sent me looking for 100' of waterline and I was lost for days, almost starved before someone informed me...

OK down to business... I have always wanted to live on a boat. Life always got in the way. I am now 60 and if I don't do it now I never will. I know about tight spaces etc, on the Kennedy my personal space was a locker and bunk. I lived in a 16' travel trailer for 9 months (in a state park) so I understand tight spaces.

I have never sailed, though I have been on sailboats, and even "steered" one. I do not suffer motion sickness.

I Intend to buy a boat, take sailing lessons, sail up and down the ICW getting experience, work on the boat (I am handy) to get it truly ready, and on my 65th bday head out (Brazil sounds good). I am not rich, but I am a consultant (software) and work from home. If I have cell signal and internet, I can do my job.

I will be buying "low end", pay cash for the boat, and putting in sweat equity and monthly money to make it work. My consulting gives me lots of free time for the sweat equity thing.

What I really need to know is can one really live "on anchor" in the intercoastal waterway. I live in NC now, and I have family in the NC Piedmont so I would like to live on a small boat off the NC (or SC) coast, on an anchor, not paying slip fees etc. I want to replace my apartment with my boat. Any tips and tricks for living on anchor in the US.
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Old 23-04-2015, 10:28   #2
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
I Intend to buy a boat, take sailing lessons, sail up and down the ICW getting experience, work on the boat (I am handy) to get it truly ready...
I would suggest changing the order. Take the lessons first, and get some time sailing as crew on other peoples' boats. That way you will have a much, much better idea of what to look for--and what you really want--when buying your own boat.

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
What I really need to know is can one really live "on anchor" in the intercoastal waterway.
Sure. Depending on exactly where you are there may be some fees involved. But the short answer is, yes, it is possible. There are a whole lot of compromises with that lifestyle, that many don't realize at first, but it is certainly possible.
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Old 23-04-2015, 10:36   #3
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

I understand "change the order" and I fully expected to hear that. The problem is that where I live there are no lessons. Furthermore, I live a couple of hundred miles from the coast (in the mountains of NC) so "crewing on other people's boats" sounds good but won't really be possible.

And finally, buying and living on it while I learn allows me to learn the systems of that boat, work on problems and so forth.

Living in an apartment, hundreds of mile from the sea, trying to learn sailing is not a good way to get out on the ocean.
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Old 23-04-2015, 10:45   #4
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Yes you can live at anchor, though for how long in any location may vary depending on weather, nearness to grocery's, etc.

Myself, I try to hit a dock for a day every week or so. This allows for trash removal, laundry, food shopping, pumping out and a long shower.

Others might use a dinghy and a bicycle to get about and not stop at marina's so much..
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Old 23-04-2015, 10:49   #5
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
I would suggest changing the order. Take the lessons first, and get some time sailing as crew on other peoples' boats. That way you will have a much, much better idea of what to look for--and what you really want--when buying your own boat.


Sure. Depending on exactly where you are there may be some fees involved. But the short answer is, yes, it is possible. There are a whole lot of compromises with that lifestyle, that many don't realize at first, but it is certainly possible.
Hi JW.

I read your intro and believe I understand your goals.
I think DenverDon has put it very simply and well.

It may be hard to imagine taking lessons as you live in the mountains now.

So, I suggest the following:

1. Read everything you can about sailing and boats
2. Watch free videos on Youtube related to sailing and cruising. If you have Amazondotcom's Prime membership, you can also find free videos about sailing there too.
3. Take your next vacation somewhere where you can also take a "live aboard" sailing lessons. This is possible in Caribbean, which would give you a good taste of what you might want to do or where to go in future on your own boat. There are a few members of this forum who offer a service like that.
4. Make yourself available to crew for yacht deliveries (as a crew person) and do that along the Atlantic Coast for delivery skippers.
5. Then buy your boat.

Good luck on your sailing adventures and have fun!

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Old 23-04-2015, 11:39   #6
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Thanks for the reply Steady.

I have been on the forums for many months. I have kindle on all my pads and laptop and have downloaded a ton of books and am reading away. Everything from "Twenty small sailboats to take you anywhere" to "Learning to Sail in Three Days", to "Single handed sailing, thoughts..." etc.

I'm here to tell ya, just the "jargon" or names of things is pretty overwhelming. Learning the names of all the sails, lines, hardware, types of anchors and so forth. Woof!

I have perhaps a hundred book marks for articles, blogs, SailBoatData on various models, Sailboat Listing and YachtWorld listings for dozens of models.

So much to learn, so little time.

So back to business. I am an engineer by trade. Completing any task, whether designing complex systems or washing the dishes is accomplished by breaking the task down into smaller tasks, then scheduling the tasks. What you discover is that:

I need to do a, b, c and d. A and B can be done in parallel, but C can't be done until A is completed and D can't be done until A and B are completed etc.

I am not 20 years old, or even 40 years old, I am 60 years old. So...

1) I can sit in my apartment and learn the terms. Read the books, study the stuff.
2) Then AFTER that I can take sailing lessons.
3) Then AFTER that I can crew on a boat.
4) Then AFTER that I can buy a boat.
5) Then AFTER that I can fix the boat.
6) Then AFTER that I can sail up and down the ICW gaining experience about my boat and more sailing experience.

...

Unless I die first.

Or...

1) I can study terms, read books, read web stuff.
2) I can take on line courses WHILE I do 1.
3) I can buy the boat WHILE I do 1 and 2
4) I can move into the boat AFTER I do 3.
5) I can fix the boat AFTER 3 and 4 (buy the boat and move in) but WHILE I am doing 2 and 3
6) I can take sailing lessons AFTER 3 and 4 but WHILE I am doing 5, and in fact WHILE I continue doing 1 and 2.
7) I can sail up and down in my own boat AFTER doing 3,4, 5 and 6.
8) Assuming I haven't died yet (and I am in good health really) I can sail off to Brazil on my 65th bday AFTER doing 1-7.

I can't tell you how many threads on this forum where I have read all the advice about how to go about getting into sailing.

In the end though, There is a lot to be done, much of it can be done while other things are also being done. Some of it can be done much easier in the order I am attempting to do it. And I can be on the water sailing months or years earlier.

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Old 23-04-2015, 12:02   #7
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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Yes you can live at anchor, though for how long in any location may vary depending on weather, nearness to grocery's, etc.

Myself, I try to hit a dock for a day every week or so. This allows for trash removal, laundry, food shopping, pumping out and a long shower.

Others might use a dinghy and a bicycle to get about and not stop at marina's so much..
So what I am wondering is really about the meat of the matter, things like you discuss.

Also (for the east coast) how do I survive severe storms and hurricanes? Is the ICW protected enough to keep the boat afloat? Are there locations that are better in that regard?

Will the coast guard harass me for sitting on anchor "forever"? Are there locations where you just can't do that (legally or morally)?

Speaking of dumping, I understand that dumping at anchor is a no-no. What is the actual practice while sailing? Not a single book or thread I have read so far discusses this "delicate matter". Is it ok (legally and morally) to dump while sailing out in the ocean? If so are there rules about "x miles from land" etc? I'm guessing that the sailing lessons will eventually discuss that, but since I am buying a boat early in the cycle, knowing that now makes a difference in what size tanks I look for.

When I was in the Navy, as we were steaming around the ocean we had "port quarter call" where they would "open the port quarter" and everyone would take their bags of trash and toss it into the ocean. BTW the Russians would follow us picking up the trash and looking for secrets!

In fact I was wondering whether it was OK to dump food / paper / bio-degradable but not plastics etc?

I'm pretty sure sewage was continuously flushed overboard as well, though the Russians didn't seem too interested in that.

I need to find a book or forum "living on anchor" to read up on the reality of that life. Lots of the books and threads gloss over "we sailed to there, then dropped anchor" but not so much the nitty-gritty of the thing.
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Old 23-04-2015, 14:57   #8
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
Speaking of dumping, I understand that dumping at anchor is a no-no.
What is the actual practice while sailing? Not a single book or thread I have read so far discusses this "delicate matter". Is it ok (legally and morally) to dump while sailing out in the ocean? If so are there rules about "x miles from land" etc?

Look up the MARPOL Treaty.

Yes, I think you can work your plan. I think it'd be a lot of work.

Not at all meant to discourage, but you'll want realistic insight into "a day in the life of" living on the hook.

Need to shop? Groceries and so forth? Depending, that might mean a taxi ride, or a bicycle, or a car, or a good bud... and a place to do it. Which means your eventual location would be better if somewhere in proximity to supplies you might want.

Getting to shore requires a dock stop, and/or a dinghy. A dinghy requires a lifting or towing system, and a propulsion system. Latter can be cheap -- manual, and expense is based on your health and your health insurance -- or less cheap (electric, gas, or propane outboard). Which means you'll need fuel, and a way to transport it.

You'll have to fix something every day. That can be rewarding, or it can be drudgery, depending on your outlook. (In my case, sometimes it just hurts for a few days afterwards.)

And so forth. Just one example of "hip bone connected to the thigh bone" -- a system of systems -- and your engineering background can give you insight into all that.

Go for it!

But with your eyes wide open

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Old 23-04-2015, 15:28   #9
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Hi Again JW.

I appreciate what you have written regarding your desire/goal to become a sailor (with a boat that has canvas).

You have the desire. I know that feeling too.

Please do not think I am trying to discourage you. IF I were in your shoes, I might be asking the very same questions you have and feel the same urge to move from the mountains to the sea and to live on a boat ASAP. In fact, I am in a similar mode, (I am 54) and am tired of being landlocked too.
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My last post (above) is really based on the wisdom of what Denverdon wrote. It is wise to first get some/more experience on a variety of sailboats before making the purchase of one, especially if you have limited time left. Making the RIGHT choice will be easier if you have more time actually sailing them to know how one might be very different from another. I only write this because you said in your introduction that you have never sailed. Given that, I would also consider a "trawler" type power boat too. Those can be very comfortable and could make a great live aboard for cruising the ICW and perhaps a bit further.

Of course, there is also the matter of budget (the big elephant in any forum room).
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Name the Budget

What follows is written in a truly friendly tone of voice and with the true intent to help.

Whenever I see a post asking about a boat or "help me find a boat that…" the first question that enters my mind is:

"What is your budget?"

With an adequate budget (funds or "asking price range") one can find a solution.

Without the adequate budget, it is asking folks to name what they would want, without necessarily any real fit for what you can buy.

So, name the funds and then ask folks to spend them for you.
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You wrote that you already have many links saved and you look at Yachtworld. You may not already know this, but the Yachtworld site allows you to perform a search for boats within a certain budget, area, AND once you complete that search you can also elect (clicking a few buttons) to have Yachtworld send you more boats in the future that meet the criteria you chose when performing the Advanced Search. I did this and each week receive an email with new listings (of used boats) that fit my criteria.

Also, be aware that Yachtworld does have some lower budget boats (less than $30K) but many more boats in the lower budget tier will be found in other listing sites such as "Sailboatlistings.com" or even Craig's List.
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Since you are 60, and you intend to leave in 5 years time, I can understand the strong desire to get going ASAP. Time flies and we never know how long we have in our lives. Make the most of the years you do have left, something I am trying to do too.
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Size Matters

You don't mention your size. I am 6' tall. While I am fit, I am also getting older and not as flexible as I once was. So, some boats are just a little 'too small" for my tastes and comfort. For example, a Classic International Folkboat is a highly regarded 26 foot bluewater sailboat. It is sweet looking (especially when is is a wood hull) and I have sailed and raced on one. But, while it is a classic, low budget, blue water, highly regarded, and many are available, I was NOT comfortable on the boat because of the very low cabin top (low headroom) and the cockpit and the lack of lifelines (I was on the foredeck part of the race). I would prefer something more comfortable and I don't want to stoop.

So, when people offer suggestions about boats, I often carefully look at the dimensions of the interior (headroom) and also the length of the settees (to sleep on while on passage) and the length of the berths (some Vberths are very tight).

If you are shorter than 6', you may not have the same concerns. If you are taller than 6', you may want to focus on identifying boats that have at least 6' 3" of headroom.
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Old 23-04-2015, 15:32   #10
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

You mentioned sailing jargon. That is something that every new sailor encounters.

It can take a while to learn it, and I doubt anyone knows it ALL accurately.

You can buy books with glossaries. You can even find nautical terms online. Here is a link to an online glossary with 500 terms defined. I have no connection to the site or the sailing school that owns that site. But, the list of definitions can help any sailor.

Glossary; Over 500 sailing & nautical terms defined.
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Old 23-04-2015, 15:59   #11
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Yes you can live on a boat on the US east coast. I personally know people who do, anchored out, right here in east central florida. Some have been here for years. Others migrate north and south with the seasons.

You dont need a lot of money, but you need some. In your case you can probably take social security at 62 and live well enough. I think you can do it. Its not rocket science.
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Old 23-04-2015, 20:16   #12
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Steady,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I am not really looking for help with "what boat". You can't be on this forum long before you see about a billion such threads, and reading the responses is as good as asking for myself.

In fact I have intentionally not asked that question. The longer I look at boats, the more I realize that there is always another "deal" coming along. It doesn't matter whether my budget is 10K or 50K or 250K, not a single boat out there is "just right" and there will always be 10 more available tomorrow. So I am not in any hurry to buy just for the sake of snagging that super deal.

That said, I have set a "range" of 30-40 feet. Probably really 33-37 feet seems to be about the right size for long term. That's what I want, not what I absolutely have to have.

And then I found a little Columbia 8.7 which is not even 29 feet. But as a boat (other than that 33+' range) it ticks a lot of boxes. And it could be a smaller "starter" kind of boat. Small enough to be easier to learn on, yet big enough to cruise out to the Bahamas once I know it is seaworthy. LOTS of folks recommend smaller "starter boats".

But if that sells tomorrow (and not to me) then there will be something else.

In the end though, one has to eventually buy a boat.

As an engineer I know that there is no perfect. Every solution is about compromises. What is good for you may be good for me too, or may not.

I have been reading long enough to know that some folks get bogged down in buying "just the right boat" and never buy anything. Other folks get bogged down in "getting everything fixed just right" and never actually get out of port. Some folks are just subconsciously terrified of going out there, even though they think that is their dream.

My objective is to buy something that will allow me to sail and live aboard. It will not be the boat I would buy if I won the lottery, but I haven't won the lottery. I will have to do work on it, I know that. I have a good income, but I am not independently wealthy. I will have to get on it and go to work.

If the plan works, then within 6 months of buying and getting on board, I will have enough knowledge to actually sail my own boat. And I will have done enough work on the boat that it will not sink under my feet as I hit the 6 foot waves.

If those two things are true, then I am on my way.

It's really kind of amusing. In watching the threads about "buying the right boat", it doesn't matter what brand or size is mentioned as "what I want", there are 50% of the folks saying why that is a bad choice, and the other 50% saying that is exactly what they have and it is grand. The moral of that story is only I can know what is right for me, and even mentioning a brand or size is just asking for that thunderstorm.

So this thread isn't about that. This thread is about pros and cons of living on anchor. In the end, I cannot (or at least don't want to) afford slip fees. I want to live aboard. If I am island hopping down the chain to south america, I will be living on anchor much of the time so there ya go.

My immediate concern is how and where to do so here in the ICW. The east coast gets hurricanes right up the coast. How do I and my boat live through that? As an engineer, I have to solve that problem. It would be bad to go get my boat, do all that work, only to have it sink under my feet as that hurricane goes by. Since neither my boat nor I will not be "blue water" ready, in the next 18 months, I can hardly count on sailing out of range.

Anyway, I have plenty to do, lots of problems to solve, lots of things to learn. And some day somewhat soon I will pull the trigger and buy something. And then the real adventure begins!
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Old 23-04-2015, 20:46   #13
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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Look up the MARPOL Treaty.
Hmmm... ok it seems sewage can be dumped within 3 miles of land if it is treated and if untreated then 12 miles out. No plastics.

Not that I actually found the original documents.
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Old 23-04-2015, 20:58   #14
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

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I understand "change the order" and I fully expected to hear that. The problem is that where I live there are no lessons. Furthermore, I live a couple of hundred miles from the coast (in the mountains of NC) so "crewing on other people's boats" sounds good but won't really be possible.

And finally, buying and living on it while I learn allows me to learn the systems of that boat, work on problems and so forth.

Living in an apartment, hundreds of mile from the sea, trying to learn sailing is not a good way to get out on the ocean.
Most of the lakes up in those mountains have at least a handful of sailors each. I would be surprised if you couldn't take a few lessons. They will be smaller boats, but it will allow you to get the sailing part up and running faster once you get your own.

If you are intent on starting with your own, it can actually be quite reasonable to hire someone for a lesson, as they don't have to provide the boat or the insurance (your insurance may even require you to have someone sign off on your skills). Even better if you can find a buddy to split the costs with.

Our method for buying our big boat was to go look at boats that cost less than we had in cash. We didn't wait on our broker, either, we scoured yachtworld for our area and learned about all kinds of boats we hadn't heard of. If it was a sailboat 30-45 feet and within driving distance, we knew about it, had looked it up on sailboatdata.com, read reviews, signed up for the owner's forum, etc.
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Old 23-04-2015, 20:59   #15
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Re: Living on anchor in the US

Hi JW

If I may chime in and give my opinion, in no particular order. Several of these points have already been addressed but doesn't hurt to repeat occasionaly.

- Certainly you can legally and morally anchor in the US in lots and lots of places. There are a few areas that it may not be practical for various reasons (see next comment) and a few places where there will restrictions but these areas are very much the minority.

- Living on anchor and working as you plan there are a number of considerations.
- you have to get to shore and will need a (safe) place to park your dinghy.
- you will need a place where you can access the basic necessities: groceries, water, occasional fuel, internet, phone, etc. That will to some degree narrow down your options.
- sewage. It is not legal in most places nor moral to pump the head directly into the water. So, the boat will need a tank to hold sewage until you can access a pump out (another of the basic necessities) OR until you can go three miles offshore where it is legal AND moral to pump it into the ocean.
- transportation on shore. If you stay in one place long term you can get a car and find a place on shore to park it, not always easy but I've done it several times. Or you can get a bike or in some locations use the dinghy to commute.

Buy now, buy later, learn now, lessons, etc????

This is an issue where there is no right answer for every one. Every person learns differently, at different rates and in different ways. I know people that have purchased cruising sailboats with almost no experience and learned after they had the boat. This does incur a risk other than fender benders with the boat. That is, your opinions and preferences on what you want and need in a boat will surely evolve as you gain experience on boats. It is rare indeed for someone to buy their lifetime boat the first time.

In your situation, wanting a place to move to from your landlocked location I think it could make sense to buy a boat to live on and learn to sail as you have time. I guarantee if you are in an area with more boaters around you will easily find someone to go out with you and show you the ropes. With your experience on Uncle Sams yachts you have a head start. I'm guessing you at least know port from starboard and bow from stern. And you already have a nice stash of waterline if you need it.
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