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Old 08-10-2019, 20:57   #16
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Re: Life lines

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Originally Posted by Breaking Waves View Post
It is really not that difficult to cut when it is tensioned.(like a life life probably would be).

.
Have you used d12 max sk99?

As a test a while ago i spliced some short lengths into mooring warps while spending a wiinter in sw UK with storms kicking the boat around every few days, intentionally rubbing against some stainless angle. The anti chafe coating was barely even fluffy, it's tough as old boots. 8mm has a mbl of 7500kg and cost a bomb, downside is it ain't cheap.
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Old 08-10-2019, 21:20   #17
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Re: Life lines

If you go Dyneema you might take a look at this document by CF's own Evans Starzinger. It's a bit old, he might pop up here if he has any updates that are important.

For our Dyneema lifelines we bought some 48-braid Dyneema chafe sleeve (can be had from most rope manufacturers) and put a 50mm/2" piece on the lifeline at every stanchion. Takes a little work to whip them in place, but puts up something sacrificial where wire might have created a sharp edge. Doesn't look quite as clean, but gives a little peace of mind (YMMV).

If you're working with Dyneema a lot, spend the $20 or $30 on a (true) ceramic knife set. I got this Cuisinart set as a gift and have never used it for cooking, only for rope work. Cuts Dyneema like a hot knife through butter. They're a bit delicate, but worth it to not dull your rigging knife/scissors. Just make sure to get the real ceramic as opposed to ceramic coated.
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Old 08-10-2019, 21:48   #18
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Re: Life lines

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Originally Posted by Breaking Waves View Post
A note if/when planning to put Dyneema thru stanchion holes which have previously held wire ..... you absolutely need to make sure the hole surfaces (thru the stanchions) are super smooth. Wire can create grooves and gouges in those holes which have proven to quite quickly damage/cut Dyneema. This is not just a theoretical concern, it has happened repeating out in the real world - is one of the big reasons racing (mostly) retracted their approval for Dyneema.

If the prior wire was plastic coated, that may have protected the stanchion holes, but it is something you need to check carefully - each and every hole needs to be all smooth surface.

You can polish out any grooves you find.
Yes, you must clean up the stanchions, no rough edges remaining.

I've used 6mm dyneema, and even after polishing the stainless steel stanchions I inserted plastic sleeves to protect the dyneema.

AND, it's still legal for racing, Offshore Category 0 as of Jan 2019

3.14.6 Lifeline Specifications
3.14.6 e) All components of the lifeline enclosure system shall have a breaking strength no less than the lifeline
LH Wire--(Single braid) HMPE rope--(Braid on braid)HMPE Core
under 8.5m -3mm (1/8") -4mm (5/32") -4mm (5/32")
8.5m-13m -4mm (5/32") -5mm (3/16") -5mm (3/16")
over 13m -5mm (3/16") -5mm (3/16") -5mm (3/16")
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Old 08-10-2019, 23:16   #19
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Re: Life lines

I use 7mm dyneema, with 3mm dyneema lashing one end and eye splice the other. The extra couple of mm allow me the ability to ignore a little chafe or uv degradation. Very happy with how they look and perform.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:49   #20
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Re: Life lines

Get the dyneema coated with the same protection they use on dyneema rigging. That way you have both chafe protection and UV protection. The downside is cost. The chafe sleaves are 5.50 per metre in the UK. That's about 220 for a boat my size 10.7m not counting the cost of the actual dyneema itself. SS is certainly much cheaper.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:04   #21
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Re: Life lines

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AND, it's still legal for racing, Offshore Category 0 as of Jan 2019
No. You need to look a little closer. Dyneema (eg HMPE) is NOT currently allowed for racing (under OSR's), except for multihulls and inshore (category 4) monos. Note:"Mo4" means monohull category 4.

So if one is moving away from coated wire because it is not allowed in OSR racing, then dyneema is generally currently in that same 'not allowed for OSR racing' situation for most of our boats.

In your quote above you did not copy the category restrictions. Here they are from the lastest OSR. You will see for mono category 0 thru 3 you must have bare stainless, only for Mono category 4 (eg close to shore, in warm water, in daylight) and multi (any category) do you have the choice of HMPE.

"3.14.6 Lifeline Specifications
Mo0,1,2,3 3.14.6 a) Lifelines of stranded stainless steel wire
Mo4,Mu** 3.14.6 a) Lifelines of either:
Mo4,Mu** 3.14.6 a) i stranded stainless steel wire
Mo4,Mu** 3.14.6 a) ii HMPE

......


Mo4,Mu** 3.14.6 e) All components of the lifeline enclosure system shall have a breaking strength no less than the lifeline
Mo4,Mu** 3.14.6 f) When HMPE is used, it shall be protected from chafe and spliced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommended procedures
LH Wire HMPE rope (Single braid) HMPE Core (Braid on braid)
under 8.5m (28') 3mm (1/8") 4mm (5/32") 4mm (5/32")
8.5m - 13m 4mm (5/32") 5mm (3/16") 5mm (3/16")
over 13m (42' 8") 5mm (3/16") 5mm (3/16") 5mm (3/16")

"

page 12 -
https://www.sailing.org/tools/docume...ons20182019v2-[24802].pdf


Note 1: I'm pro Dyneema lifelines - I do not think cruisers should be concerned IF they make sure their stanchion holes are smooth. I fought for them in world sailing technical review committee. But I lost to a British contingent who thought they were unsafe (because they could be cut and wire cannot) and added nothing of value.

Note 2 Cat 4 = Short races, close to shore in relatively warm or protected waters normally
held in daylight.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:06   #22
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Re: Life lines

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Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
That's about 220 for a boat my size 10.7m not counting the cost of the actual dyneema itself. SS is certainly much cheaper.
Did mine a couple of years ago after realising the originals were 3 decades old. The 5mm S/S came in at 200 for the four lines plus fittings, two each side and I thought that a tad expensive, but at least the local chandlers pension fund is being supported.

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Old 09-10-2019, 07:35   #23
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Life lines

First coated lines are still available and still widely used.
My Rigger tried his best to talk me into replacing my coated lines with new coated lines.
However I chose to go with bare SS. An issue is the the plastic coating significantly increases the diameter of the cable so you need to go up in size if you go with bare or else you have a thin cable that if you fall on may hurt you due to its thin diameter, so you need to go up to a larger size that is more expensive.
I only went bigger for the top wire though, figuring its unlikely for me to fall onto the lower wire and saved some money as the thinner wire is plenty strong.

Using anything but SS, Id be concerned with how UV effects it over time.

Looking at these graphs, the exposure item seems awfully short to me, maybe its very intense UV to accelerate the process?
https://dynamica-ropes.com/wp-conten...SM-Dyneema.pdf
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